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Dentology Podcast with Brad Thornton


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Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Brad Thornton

Episode Release Date – Monday 25 March 2024

Andy & Chris (00:00.41)
Here we go again. It’s another dentology. It is. And it’s funny because dentology, we say it’s the business of dentistry podcasts. And I don’t think that this gets any more true to that term, the conversation we’re about to have. No, no, definitely. And they are intertwined and so important. As they should be, as they should be. So, very fortunate today. We have Dr. Brad Thornton joining us and Brad is principal of ivory dental practice in Leeds.

Serial entrepreneur and investor. Serial entrepreneur. And also, previous guest, all the way back in November 2021, when he joined us for episode 15. So welcome back, Brad. How you doing? Yeah, welcome.

Brad (00:39.146)
Yeah, I’ve still not got over the fact that it took 14 other episodes to get me on, but you know, we’re good. I’m joking.

Andy & Chris (00:46.815)
No, in a situation that it comes out like that, what we say is we practice on the first 14 to get good, and then we saved ourselves for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you were busy. Your episode when we did that back in November 21, we titled it entrepreneurship, and I think that’s still fitting, because of all the things you do and the things you continue to do. Two years. Yeah, it’s mad, isn’t it? How would you?

Brad (00:51.486)
Yeah, I knew, I thought that’s what it was.

Brad (00:58.994)
Oh yeah, that was it.

Brad (01:13.41)
That has actually gone really quick.

Andy & Chris (01:14.874)
How would you define yourself entrepreneurship?

Brad (01:19.911)
I think entrepreneurship to me tends to be more of a mindset and I guess it’s a certain number of traits that you might have. I’m weirdly considering The Apprentice is on at the moment. I think the one thing that I ever remember Alan Sugar saying, I don’t watch The Apprentice often, but he said one thing once.

Andy & Chris (01:26.276)

Andy & Chris (01:35.06)

Brad (01:44.746)
when somebody described themselves as an entrepreneur, and he said, look, you don’t call yourself what other people do. And I think it’s a way in which you live life, sort of, you know, the way in which your sort of creative aspect of your brain and maybe a desire for challenge and difficulty shines through into business. And for me, you know, I’ve always had a certain restlessness.

Andy & Chris (01:51.103)
Mm. Yeah.


Andy & Chris (02:07.394)

Andy & Chris (02:14.628)

Brad (02:15.326)
In a positive way, I think there’s moments where that potentially could be negative, when your life’s balance falls out of whack with where your priorities lie maybe. It’s hard to know that during it. It’s often retrospectively look back and go, hang on a minute, maybe I need to rebalance. But yeah, I think it’s a mindset. It’s a desire to challenge yourself to do things, to push boundaries. And in business, hopefully that goes well.

But that’s kind of where I see it.

Andy & Chris (02:45.16)
No, I think it’s a good answer. Good answer. I’d agree.

I think you’re right. I think mindset gets talked about a lot. And I think a lot of people kind of just push it to one side of being, oh, there’s namby-pamby thing. Seriously, it does change your outlook. And it also goes into the people around you as well. If you’re positive, and I don’t mean just stupidly positive with no basis. If you genuinely have a plan and you’re delivering that plan and you’re explaining to people why it’s good to be part of this process, where are we going and what we’re doing. I think it is, it’s infectious. People love it.

Brad (03:16.418)
Yeah, and I think is because entrepreneurship is thrown around a lot. Um, I think people want to be an entrepreneur and then they sort of track backwards to try and figure out how they can become one rather than maybe starting at the beginning, setting themselves up with, you know, figuring out what it is that they want, setting visions, creating actual, you know, some sort of trajectory and priorities. And from there building an idea from.

Andy & Chris (03:19.666)

Well, it’s sexy.

Andy & Chris (03:27.101)

Andy & Chris (03:34.756)

Andy & Chris (03:39.728)

Andy & Chris (03:43.898)
Mm-hmm Hmm, I think sometimes entrepreneurs they sort of perceived as people who just like bet it all on black You know, I mean that it’s almost like there’s no logic and thought to be able to develop entrepreneurs are really they’re not risk-averse But they do manage the downside a good entrepreneur and I think there’s also this kind of um

Brad (03:44.726)
what is truly meaningful to them.

Andy & Chris (04:06.938)
thought process that an entrepreneur just has loads of businesses and just bounces between them. But the reality is if you look at people who are incredibly successful, you can normally chart back to one business that served them incredibly well, that gave them the opportunity to see and the platform to then go on and do other things. People don’t just bounce around between businesses in the early days. They really double down on one and make sure that it really delivers for them.

Brad (04:29.334)
Yeah, and it might have been you that I heard once say something similar to that, that really resonated with me because when I was earlier in my career, I did sort of, you know, it was hard to control this entrepreneurial thing. And I did try too many side hustles at once and then actually focused on the main hustle. And you do see it now, you know, with social media, we have access to people’s lives.

Andy & Chris (04:43.502)

Brad (04:54.686)
a lot more than we’re used to. And with the development of all the other groups and all the things that are going on, especially in dentistry, we have a generation of dentists that are very side hustle focused. And, you know, and I get it. And I think it’s important for people to, you know, scratch that itch. But yeah, get that first one right, focus on that. You know, do what’s necessary to create a good sort of main hustle and then build from that.

Andy & Chris (05:04.793)

Andy & Chris (05:15.771)

Andy & Chris (05:21.766)
Yeah. We’ve talked a lot about business already, but obviously your primary qualification is as a dentist. So how do you balance the mix of making sure you stay at the forefront of clinical dentistry, which is your core profession and what you do with your patients, but also learning broader business skills? What’s kind of your approach to that in terms of how you divide out your sort of CPD almost?

Brad (05:48.33)
Yeah, I think I’ve fluctuated from one thing to the other. The first master’s I did was in implantology. And then I’ve recently completed the master’s of business, like an MBA, master’s of business. And I think one of the hardest things was, you know, wanting to really push myself from a business perspective and push the business and grow and also add on other businesses, but also keep that clinical side going.

Andy & Chris (06:02.196)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Andy & Chris (06:11.534)

Brad (06:16.878)
I think one of the main things that really sort of helped for me was the segmentation of my time and making sure that when I’m doing clinical dentistry, I am focusing on the patient and I’m developing that side. But actually, I am allocating time to the business of dentistry. And yeah, and you know, when we’re trying to make decisions and…

Andy & Chris (06:16.955)

Andy & Chris (06:24.648)

Andy & Chris (06:32.22)

Andy & Chris (06:36.038)
You’re in the present.

Brad (06:41.866)
you know, analyze parts of the business and, and go into the sort of some of the depths of it that will enable the right decision going forward, like actually spending time doing that and trying not to be pulled away from it. And I do think, you know, intention is important. And if you are wanting to improve the business of, you know, if your business and within dentistry, we’re in this, it’s relatively unique, you know, an associate dentist can be a business and can.

Andy & Chris (06:53.283)

Andy & Chris (07:09.689)

Brad (07:10.274)
can act very business-like. You know, business owners who have owned their own practice for obvious reasons, you know, business people that are running up to buying a business, getting, you know, there’s all these different sort of almost demographics of dentists and you know, dental care professionals. We’ve got other people, you know, non-dentists buying practices. And being really intentional of knowing when you need to focus on the business and what areas you need to develop and being quite self-aware.

Andy & Chris (07:22.194)
Hmm. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (07:27.796)
Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy & Chris (07:37.794)
and how it works, I think. It’s a very, I think a simple analogy is like, we all know how to drive a car, but a lot of us don’t actually know how it all works. And it’s that, I think, you know, there’s so many business owners, not just dental practice owners, who they drive their business because they sort of turn up, but they don’t actually understand how it all works. And I think it’s really, really important.

Brad (07:39.754)
at how it works here.

Brad (08:00.39)
Yeah, and I think one of the things with dentistry, typically, and I know it’s not typical now because times have changed, but it’s a relatively stable business model, cash flowing, only dentists can do what a dentist does kind of thing. And I think the industry as a whole has probably gone through quite an extended run of businesses doing well just by being a dentist.

Andy & Chris (08:09.669)

Andy & Chris (08:23.886)
It’s super robust, isn’t it? Hmm.

Brad (08:27.894)
And as soon as challenge comes, as soon as things happen that make that business model start to crumble a little bit, people are turning to a solution. And it’s like, well, if I don’t know what my solution is, because I’ve not been working that muscle very much, what do I do?

Andy & Chris (08:34.952)

Andy & Chris (08:44.774)
Hmm, but also I think stress is like a body’s response to pressure

So if we have to do something new or something that makes us feel uncomfortable, we get stressed because that’s how our body will respond to that. So it always surprises me that given the choice, dentists and business owners and some associates who kind of run their own businesses would always favor a clinical course over a business course, but a lack of business competence must surely make owning of only a dental practice more stressful because it’s an area you feel uncomfortable about.

pressure, it would make sense to me that perhaps the dentist to focus as much on their business skills and to open those as opposed to purely clinical.

Brad (09:32.11)
No, yeah, and I’d agree with that. You know, as somebody that I now do a couple of clinical days and per week, and the rest is, you know, business related activities. Um, and you know, business decisions that you make and business problems that you solve, uh, can be longer lasting and impact the level of micromanagement you’re doing the number of times that you’re, like you said, getting stressed day to day. Um, because your business is running.

Andy & Chris (09:42.261)

Andy & Chris (09:56.305)

Andy & Chris (09:59.601)

Brad (10:02.718)
every day that it’s open, whether you’re there or not, and things that are happening, if you’ve struggled to create the systems or the business that manages effectively, then you’re far more likely to get bothered, hassled, stressed, all of that, than you are from the patients that you’re treating. So the business side of it makes it way less stressful, 100%.

Andy & Chris (10:05.478)

Andy & Chris (10:20.499)

Andy & Chris (10:29.224)
Hmm. What’s the point where there’s like a dawning realization that you had to start investing in your person and your on your business development away from being a dentist? Yeah, what’s the kind of almost like an epiphany where it’s like you woke up and you’re like, if I want a future that doesn’t revolve me leaning over the back of a dental chair, I have to do things differently.

Brad (10:50.57)
Yeah, I think there was the first, I don’t know. I mean, one of the reasons I bought a practice was that I was doing five day a week, massive NHS contract, 30 minute lunches. Even though I’ve had it in my mind that I wanted to buy a practice and it was always something I was gonna do, I jumped, potentially jumped early because I was disillusioned by how hard I was working. I was looking at a list of patients and seeing UDA rates rather than anything else. And then…

Andy & Chris (11:01.359)

Brad (11:18.646)
you know, moving into private practice and working against, you know, six day weeks and really working very, very hard clinically to enable the business to grow because at the time I wasn’t really making any business decisions. It was just, you know, treadmill and running. Yeah. And things evolve over time and you know, you’re going to learn from your own mistakes. You can learn from others, which is better. And then you’ve got, you know, the academic side, which, you know, people may

Andy & Chris (11:35.187)
Mm-hmm. Just surviving.

Andy & Chris (11:43.387)

Brad (11:47.534)
question the benefit of academic but often it’ll come from you know a multitude of other people’s trials and errors to create what could be seen as an ideal situation but I was making a lot of mistakes learning from them and then that I think the big the big thing for me was the whole I’m getting to an age we’re going to be settling down, going to be raising family, need to figure that you know I’m just starting to actually focus on how my future was going to look

Andy & Chris (11:55.561)

Andy & Chris (12:13.294)

Brad (12:15.49)
and you know, realizing that, you know, the last thing I would want to do, I mean, I’ve got a four and a five year old. And so this was what six, seven years ago in the run up to that. It was like, how am I going to carry on doing this and also raise a family? And I think it was that point, even though I’d always been interested and almost been an amateur business enthusiast in terms of learning, I’ve always been interested in personal development. But I think at that point, I took more.

Andy & Chris (12:37.623)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Brad (12:43.606)
I had more of an active interest, you know, signed up to certain masterminds, you know, the kind of entrepreneurs you see on Facebook. I was going to mastermind sessions, I was paying to be parts of groups of entrepreneurs and people that were business owners and trying to learn as much as I could. So I’d say it was the acknowledgement of future. It was starting to look forwards and thinking, you know, at what point does this type of working run out of road and I just end up…

Andy & Chris (13:05.254)

Andy & Chris (13:10.397)

Brad (13:12.118)
You know, the guy I bought my practice off retired early because of ill health. His business partner, his associate, sorry, did the same. So many stories of dentists just burning out. I was like, right, I don’t want to be a 50 odd, 60 odd year old dentist with, you know, a crippled over neck, dodgy shoulder, bad knee, bad hip. You know, I need to create. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (13:15.962)


Andy & Chris (13:27.014)

Andy & Chris (13:31.266)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

You want to be present for your children as well. Yeah, exactly. You know, be part of their future. Exactly. I know you didn’t have them at the time, but yeah, you did.

Brad (13:42.802)
I feel very lucky, my kids probably say they see me too much. You know, their memories of their dad is like, you can’t get rid of him.

Andy & Chris (13:52.922)
But you clearly got the bug for it after kind of acknowledging that was going to be your kind of passport to enjoying running business and also enjoying your dentistry because there wasn’t so much pressure on you to deliver clinically. You then went on to do an MBA, a Masters of Business Administration at University College London gaining a distinction. Very well done indeed.

Brad (14:11.758)
Thank you very much.

Andy & Chris (14:15.567)
An MBA is quite a broad church of learning, so how specifically did this further education support you as a dental business owner?

Brad (14:23.734)
think you know with the MBA every single sort of module that’s there is like you said very general business focused but when you’re doing about you know certain things to do with operations leadership you know marketing economics accountants all that kind of stuff and it’s very sort of applicable into dental practice there are certain things which you need to

learn as part of the MBA that would be way more general business, but every single session that we had, every lecture that I listened to and watched and seminars that we had in live sessions, I was going back to her that next day and you can see how that can then influence the business that I was running. You know, especially some of the, you know, you mentioned mindset earlier.

Andy & Chris (15:09.976)


Brad (15:16.854)
you know, all some of the stuff to do with leadership and actually running an organisation and sort of empowering staff and getting them as part of your team. And then, you know, breaking down business into, I mean, you mentioned driving, you know, breaking a business down into its component parts and almost looking at it from an engineering eye and seeing how all these different parts fit together and just create a smoother running operation.

Andy & Chris (15:39.851)

Brad (15:45.642)
you know, the MBA really kind of broke down my thought processes and the way I’ve looked at my business and helped me focus on the certain, I guess, jigsaw puzzles that could be slightly tweaked to just create a better picture and a better business.

Andy & Chris (15:53.125)

Andy & Chris (16:01.114)
Mm-hmm. It’s so it’s so it’s we did a course Recently Brad and it’s so interesting because one of the things that we just said to the That’s the one thank you very much. It is and was that the facts of most of the people Yeah, it was good. But most of the people in the room we were saying to them and you sort of said it right at the beginning is that because dentistry is pretty comfortable and It’s really hard to cock it up

Brad (16:08.027)
Blueprint for success. Yeah, yeah, blueprint for success. Yeah, it actually looks really good.

Andy & Chris (16:30.022)
that nobody sort of really, or sort of say the vast majority, don’t do anything like what you’ve done. Actually I’m gonna analyze, could I make it better? Could I make it less stressful? Could I make it more successful financially or whatever? And we sort of said to people, so how many of you know what your profit is? And there was like your blankness around the room. And we were talking about, there was a bunch of guys that we know that they’ve got a decent number of practices.

but no one produces monthly management information. And we said, how can you run a business without knowing what’s going on? But it’s partly because there’s that comfort factor. So it’s so important, this education, to actually understand it, how you can influence it. And also make you less stressed. As you said right at the beginning, it makes you less stressed.

Brad (17:16.502)
Online it’s interesting if you speak to if you speak to an accountant and I’m talking nasdal Accountant and the last couple of times I’ve spoke to them regarding monthly management accounts The answer is oh, we don’t typically do that for dentists So it’s an industry-wide thing, you know, it’s almost You know, it’s a definite, you know stuff like that and understanding how that how the business is going month by month because

Andy & Chris (17:17.786)
Yeah, for sure.

Andy & Chris (17:36.314)

Brad (17:43.818)
It’s all very well getting to the end of the year and looking back going, oh, okay, good, or shit, or, you know, but unless you can see what’s happening. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (17:49.318)
Hmm. It’s been and gone. It’s been and gone that year. It’s gone. Yeah. I suppose that goes back to what you were saying Brad in a way that we’ve noticed it with valuations is really up until probably COVID. Not a great deal. We haven’t really changed in dental practice. They sort of like mose it along looking okay. You know, if they, if they set up a new one, got a bigger contract, put new chairs or something, but in the vast main, if nothing really major had changed, they sort of all look.

very similar year on year really. And then COVID has been a complete revelation. And I think it’s so important, even more important now, that people understand what’s going on and are educated with what they need to understand about running their business. Yeah, totally, totally. But Brad, I’m conscious that an MBA, an MBA won’t be for everybody, but equally developing non-clinical skills is crucial.

Brad (18:34.518)

Andy & Chris (18:45.914)
patient communication, managing finance, leadership, management, all those aspects. So what would your advice be for people who are thinking about buying a dental practice or even owners, how they can develop in this area if they don’t wanna make that big step? MBA light. They do an MBA, yeah.

Brad (19:02.838)
Yeah, I think, you know, one thing that, you know, I do actually feel that some people just, well, most people that I speak to tend to struggle with this. It’s actually, first of all, actually trying to figure out what it is that they’re wanting from their business in terms of what, how do they want their business to serve them? Where are their priorities? What does, you know, their life look like in five years on its current trajectory? And

Andy & Chris (19:27.235)

Brad (19:32.63)
you know, can they sustain what they’re doing for that and be happy? And I chat to dentists, you know, relatively frequently, and I’ve got to say every single person that I speak to sometimes struggles to answer that. And then from there, I think looking at their… It’s because they don’t think about it. They come to me with, you know, issues where the diaries are drying up.

Andy & Chris (19:40.219)

Andy & Chris (19:52.594)
Is that because they don’t think about it, Brad?

Andy & Chris (19:57.647)

Brad (20:01.582)
they don’t know how to do marketing, they’re thinking about adding another couple of surgeries, they know how much it’s gonna cost, but they don’t know whether they’ll be able to service the debt to be able to do it. And then, you know, I’ll ask certain questions like, well, and then, you know, I’ve got an associate who wants to do more days, but I, and these various questions, and then I’ll typically ask certain questions about, like you said, about sort of profit, and, you know, do they know?

the marketing that they’re doing at the moment, you know, what is it that they’re doing and how effective is it? Can they say what level of treatment comes from the market that they carry out? Do they know where the profits come in? And certain questions that they just don’t seem to know because in order to offer advice, you often need to know what the answer to those questions are. So, you know, there’s definitely a certain level of becoming self-aware, then becoming, you know, business aware.

Andy & Chris (20:49.22)

Yeah. Mm.

Brad (21:01.026)
and then being able to identify where these improvements and development comes from. I think dentistry is probably ripe for business education. There’s a lot of, you know, little bit of disjointedness and I think sometimes the stuff that’s out there tends to focus a lot on the sexy stuff, which is understandable. But I do think that, you know,

Andy & Chris (21:02.566)

Andy & Chris (21:10.15)

Andy & Chris (21:17.575)

Andy & Chris (21:27.118)

Brad (21:29.83)
focusing on the real core evergreen skills that are going to enable business success long term, you know, is going to be valuable. But yeah, I think business awareness, self-awareness, and just basically accepting that you want to develop and being open to that. I don’t know whether that’s a very good answer, guys. You know, it’s…

Andy & Chris (21:35.906)

Andy & Chris (21:38.983)

Andy & Chris (21:49.232)

Andy & Chris (21:53.339)
Hmm. No, I think it is. I think what you said about those core skills, you know, they never go out of fashion. You know, the principles of running.

our different businesses, your different businesses, we need to be able to manage people, we need to motivate people, we need to lead people, you know, we need to understand our finances. None of this is business specific. There is good principles to running a business. It sort of sounds like, doesn’t it, that the people that come to speak to you are normally got an issue of some description, as opposed to that is the whole rump of dental practices. They could all learn. If they all learn, they would be better,

As in the fact that they might be more profitable or they might understand their business better It’s you know, it seems to be the shame bit isn’t the fact of well, I’ve got an issue So therefore I’ll reach out as opposed to actually saying oh actually it’d be a really good idea if I did understand If some of that comes back to mindset, you know Chris mentioned yeah, the blueprint course that we did and there was a practice owner there and Everything’s going really well in her life. Everything’s working out amazingly yet still came to learn

and develop and look for some one percenters. And I think the mindset of I can always grow, I can always get better. You don’t wait for things to go wrong, then fix it. You’re always on this quest of what can I learn? How can I add value? You know, where’s my next development opportunity coming from? So I think that mindset as a start point is critical. Just go back to your own MBA thing, Brad. You’ve got a practice and a family and an MBA is not a small undertaking. How did you fit it all in? Because most people believe that

they’re busy. Most people go out, my time’s full. I haven’t got any capacity for anything new. So how did you fit an MBA which is a significant undertaking into your life?

Brad (23:39.902)
Yeah, from a head space point of view, I made sure that when I was doing MBA stuff, I was focusing on it. When I was doing ivory dental stuff, I was focusing on it. I actually was writing my book, I was finishing my book off when I was starting the MBA as well. So when I did that, I was doing that. When I was with the family, I was with the family. So it was very much, you know, when I was doing one thing, I was focusing on doing that one thing. And I…

Andy & Chris (23:56.302)

Brad (24:07.482)
I do get easily distracted so that was quite a challenge. You know from a logistical point of view, I’ve always been an early bird as well so I allocated specific time early in the morning to make sure.

Andy & Chris (24:12.401)

Andy & Chris (24:19.658)
I remember those days, Brad, our very early morning conversations.

Brad (24:22.862)
I know. They would, you know what? It’s like, you know, get yourself into the right kind of head space for the day and feel productive. You know, I’m a massive advocate of that. I’m not suggesting the 5am club for everybody, but there’s a definite benefit to me for feeling a certain way for my day. And I just want to touch on what you just said about that, that lady, that dentist who you mentioned. And again, I have said this before, but, you know, everything that we.

Andy & Chris (24:30.148)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy & Chris (24:36.012)

Andy & Chris (24:41.39)
Unless you’ve got jet lag.

Andy & Chris (24:47.089)

Brad (24:51.442)
experience now as an echo of what’s happened in the past and the positive echo that rebounds is often a lot more delayed than the negative one. So if I stopped doing anything in my business today, if I stopped marketing, if I stopped helping the staff, if I stopped, if I stop now then the negative consequence would tend to come reasonably quickly. But the positive

Andy & Chris (24:56.635)

Andy & Chris (25:03.031)
Mm. Yeah, I love that.

Andy & Chris (25:16.262)

Brad (25:20.606)
echo tends to take a little bit longer. So, you know, if you’re going to be developing yourself and if you’re going to be trying to impact things, but often, you know, it takes a bit longer and it takes a bit more time and we need to be patient, but we need to work on it. And it’s something which, you know, if we’re looking at life through a longer lens than just, you know, tomorrow and next week, you know, we need, just need to bear that in mind. So I think that that, that

Andy & Chris (25:24.538)

Andy & Chris (25:45.809)
I’m out.

Andy & Chris (25:49.83)

Brad (25:49.998)
dentist at your course who was doing something when she’s actually already doing reasonably well has got the right kind of idea. Because, yeah, anyway.

Andy & Chris (26:01.87)
Yeah. It’s getting that information accessible to people, isn’t it? Yeah. It’s like they’re interested in it. Yes. If you had to distill down perhaps just two or three skills that entrepreneurs, business owners really needed to double down on and get good at, what would you narrow it down to?

Brad (26:18.975)
I definitely think it’s trying to minimise distraction and this whole single tasking where trying to focus on what you’re doing rather than trying to multitask everything all in one go at the same time and be distracted and the little 10 percents of everything get 100 percents of something. I think that’s a big one. I think a creative brain takes you away to ideas. So I think…

Andy & Chris (26:39.999)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brad (26:46.162)
The single tasking is a big one. And I actually also think as well, is this idea of network and one of the big benefits to me was actually establishing a really strong professional network of which, you’re part of that Andy actually. This group of people who,

Andy & Chris (27:13.988)
It’s funny you say that, Brad. I think this network thing has come up two or three times. Yeah, we obviously talk to lots of different people. And…

there is a theme that a lot of people who are successful say, I really value my network. I consciously develop my network. I lean into my network. They use me. So I think a power of a good network is a really important part. But like counselling, no surprises and no risk in the fact that people don’t call you a twat or they do, but in a nice way, if you know what I mean.

Brad (27:45.662)
I think Andy has called me twice before, but you know, but it’s, it did. Yeah. But, but, you know, yeah. And I think, I think that, um, you know, it’s very industry specific. It’s a certain type of problem and, and a, and a way in which people that come together with, you know, common profession for me in terms of profession.

Andy & Chris (27:49.658)
But he did it in a nice way. I’m sure he did it in a nice, constructive way. It came with love, Brad. Yeah, that’s right. It was done from the heart.

Brad (28:13.674)
you know, we’ve got a sort of professional connections in terms of certain issues that we might, you know, you’ve got unique knowledge and people within sort of my network. I think all of them have got far greater knowledge of certain areas than I do. And I think that is massively helpful to me to be able to call on people and ask questions and hopefully it’s reciprocated.

Andy & Chris (28:35.22)

Brad (28:40.534)
So yeah, the network and actually my network, even though it was relatively passive, it came because of shared interests. And I think, yeah, leaning on your network, definitely.

Andy & Chris (28:58.978)
Cool, cool. Brad, it’s been great. It’s a lovely conversation. I always enjoy time that we spend together. Even as a returning guest, we could gloss over these two questions, but you’re not gonna get away with it. No, I wanna see what they’re like. Every episode, we’ve always asked our guests the same two questions, so we can’t let you go without answering them yourself. Can you remember what the last one was? I can’t. I should have had a listen to make sure you weren’t gonna double up. So.

Brad (29:18.894)
I know, yeah, it’s going to be cringy if it’s the same. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

Andy & Chris (29:22.994)
It would wouldn’t it? Really would. So the first one is your quick producer, have a look, see what the two questions were. Send us a message. So the first one is your fly on the wall. Fly on the wall in a certain situation. Who’s there? What’s going on?

Brad (29:26.89)
I’m going to be watching.

Brad (29:36.635)
You know what, I think now, I’d probably say I’d be quite interested to be a fly on the wall in…

the home of Elon Musk chatting to, he’s got a son hasn’t he? I wanna be a fly on the wall and listen to Elon Musk having a chat with his little boy. I’d just be really interested to know how somebody like him reacts like just how he acts at home with his little boy cause I’ve got a little, yeah. Yeah, I’d just be really interested. You only ever see the public face of him.

Andy & Chris (29:53.744)

Andy & Chris (30:07.622)
Does he communicate like a normal father-son relationship or you see a little bit peculiar? Yeah Guess he’s got the brainer size of a planet Yes That’d be cool I think a lot of people would be interested And if you can meet somebody you can sit down In a nice comfy chair and a glass of something and have a chat. Who would that be?

Brad (30:16.146)
Yeah, so that’s a bit of a weird answer, but that’s kind of what I think right now.

Brad (30:33.026)
Um, you know, this, this might have been the, the answer I did last time, but actually for me it’d be, it would be some, some world leader, you know, someone like, you know, Barack Obama or you Tony Blair. I’m not saying that you don’t have to be a massive fan of anybody, but just to sit down and have a conversation over a drink and just, just pick their brains and just get, get their own unedited views. And.

Andy & Chris (30:53.604)

Brad (31:02.462)
opinions on stuff, then that’d be interesting.

Andy & Chris (31:03.386)
Hmm Yeah, big jobs big jobs and big decisions. Mm-hmm Yeah, definitely. I think only certain Pete. I think only certain people can carry that Yeah, I think carrying the responsibility of those decisions at that level. What’s that film? It’s a film with Jeremy Irons it’s about the

Brad (31:09.535)
Exactly, massively scrutinized.

Andy & Chris (31:21.81)
crash of 2008 or something and he basically makes the decisions based on true facts and he basically is the CEO and they bought they’re like he’s the big baller that they bring in for these massive meetings and basically he just says we’re going to sell it all and they’re all saying but that’s not only he says that’s why you pay me the big bucks sell it all he said and basically you have to be first.

and they were the first guys who started selling everything. So it was they lost money but didn’t go down. But it was like that. Those people who make those decisions, yeah, sell it off. The buck has to stop somewhere, doesn’t it?

Brad (31:57.777)
Yeah, it’s all or nothing, isn’t it?

Andy & Chris (32:01.19)
Yeah, I’m making the decision Don’t prevaricate Brad. We’ll let you go. I know you’ve got a very busy week ahead of you Yes, so we’ll let you go and get your bits and pieces together Always good to spend time you thank you very much indeed, and hopefully we’ll see you soon

Brad (32:16.47)
Yeah, no, thanks guys. Appreciate it.

Andy & Chris (32:19.992)
Thanks again. Cheers, Brett. Cheers.


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