Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Cally Walker
Episode Release Date – Monday 23 October 2023
Andy & Chris:
So we are now well over the 100 episode mark and going strong. Can you believe it? Can you believe it? 100 plus episodes. It’s quite remarkable. It is. Yeah, and the guests. No wonder my bottom saw. We haven’t done them all today. No, that’s true. But the guests keep coming. And today we have an absolute corker, absolute corker. Today we’re joined by Cally Walker. And Cally is the founder of Connect My Marketing. Oh, OK. Which will be interesting. But also. the founder of Dental Mavericks, a dental charity. Which you’ll be nice to find out more about as well. You should go UR after that. Exactly. Or Goose, that’d be Maverick, wouldn’t it, in Topcon? Oh, it
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
was, yes. Yeah, get your plane. So welcome, Cali, how are you?
Cally Walker:
And very well thank you and congratulations on over 100 interviews.
Andy & Chris:
It’s unbelievable
Cally Walker:
It’s quite
Andy & Chris:
isn’t
Cally Walker:
a feat.
Andy & Chris:
it? Yeah, well we started it. Can’t believe anyone still listens. I don’t know
Cally Walker:
Hehehehe
Andy & Chris:
if you remember, you may not remember or you may not have been aware of it, but there was a thing called Clubhouse, which was an audio only platform that blew up during lockdown.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
And we hopped on Clubhouse and literally it was like the sharpest peak you could imagine. It came in Tuesday night? It came in, yeah, it came in when, within about three months.
Cally Walker:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
But we enjoyed the conversations and out of that we said, Wouldn’t it be quite nice if we could carry on having these conversations? But doing it live just meant that people had to be around in that moment, which didn’t really work for us. And that’s what spawned the idea of creating our own podcast.
Cally Walker:
in the
Andy & Chris:
And
Cally Walker:
end.
Andy & Chris:
since then, it’s been really good. So we get to speak to interesting people like you, which is lovely.
Cally Walker:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
brilliant.
Andy & Chris:
My first question is, can he short for anything or is that can he?
Cally Walker:
Yes, it is. It’s short for Carolyn.
Andy & Chris:
Oh.
Cally Walker:
I’ve never been called Carolyn ever, even at school. And the only person that has ever called me Carolyn was my dad when he was angry with me,
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Cally Walker:
when I was small, that’s it really. So my brother is only 11 months difference between me and my brother, and he could never pronounce my name, and he started
Andy & Chris:
That
Cally Walker:
it
Andy & Chris:
was
Cally Walker:
and it kind of stuck,
Andy & Chris:
how it started.
Cally Walker:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
That’s because I’ve never met another Cali. No. You’ve heard of C-A-L-L-I-E or something, but I was just thinking, it’s either quite a cool name or it’s a cool name that’s a shortened version of something else.
Cally Walker:
Well I don’t know how old you are but there was a program,
Andy & Chris:
Older than you.
Cally Walker:
Lake Severn,
Andy & Chris:
Oh yeah, I
Cally Walker:
there
Andy & Chris:
do
Cally Walker:
was
Andy & Chris:
remember
Cally Walker:
a Cali
Andy & Chris:
Blake
Cally Walker:
in
Andy & Chris:
7.
Cally Walker:
there. Yeah that’s the only other one. Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
No, well, I think yeah. See, Blake 7, you won’t remember Blake 7. Anyway, even if you
Cally Walker:
He
Andy & Chris:
did,
Cally Walker:
looks shocked.
Andy & Chris:
you wouldn’t have watched it. Because it’s science fiction, you don’t like science fiction. But yeah, I’m not the biggest science fiction fan out there. It had some of the worst special effects. I
Cally Walker:
It
Andy & Chris:
think,
Cally Walker:
did.
Andy & Chris:
now when I go back in my head, some of those
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
special, especially of exploding things
Cally Walker:
It was
Andy & Chris:
were
Cally Walker:
a
Andy & Chris:
brilliant.
Cally Walker:
BBC
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
Two special, wasn’t
Andy & Chris:
it
Cally Walker:
it?
Andy & Chris:
was. But it was very, I used to quite enjoy it really. So whilst we’re reminiscing,
Cally Walker:
Yeah. Sorry.
Andy & Chris:
we could reminisce in another way, which is, is there a time back in your own childhood, Cali, that you can pinpoint and say, this is the reason why you’re sitting here today? How was your childhood and were you always destined to be the person you are or are you
Cally Walker:
and
Andy & Chris:
kind of a work in progress?
Cally Walker:
I can pinpoint a person in my life that pushed me, which was my,
Andy & Chris:
Okay.
Cally Walker:
it’s a bit of a, it’s a strange story, but my uncle, my uncle Billy, who my son’s named after, he used to breed Exmoor ponies
Andy & Chris:
Oh,
Cally Walker:
in
Andy & Chris:
okay.
Cally Walker:
Bingley, and he used to say to me, if you can master a horse, you can master anything. And I used to go riding on his farm where his horses were kept, and he had a really evil mare. called Cleo and all the kids were scared of her and he used to make me go into the stable and feed her and groom her even though she kicked and bit everybody and he did it because he wanted me to get rid of the fear of her because the horse obviously as you know would kind of like smell the fear
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. Hmm.
Cally Walker:
and that was because I was thinking about this that was kind of like one of the pivotal
Andy & Chris:
cough
Cally Walker:
things for me of feeling the fear and having to do it if that makes
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
sense because it was I didn’t really have a choice because I respected him so much. and I wanted to please him,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Cally Walker:
but it also gave me that kind of like my favorite feeling is nervous excitement. You know that kind of like pre like coming on this podcast excited a little bit
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
nervous but excited about it. So that’s kind of that is a big pivotal moment or a time when he would make me do things.
Andy & Chris:
Right,
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
right. Wow. And so you were, you say you’re from Leeds, so you
Cally Walker:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
were brought up in the North of England?
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Right, okay. And what was it, well we’ll come to where you are, because you’re not in the UK anymore, you’re based
Cally Walker:
No.
Andy & Chris:
in Managar.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
So what was your kind of pathway through from, have you been working for dentists for decades? Is it a fairly new thing? How did you end up sort of supporting dentists in the ways you do? How did you get to what you do, I suppose, is where we’re coming from.
Cally Walker:
Yeah, so I’ll just kind of like jump into the entrepreneurial journey. I think that’s kind of important because it kind of brings me to where I am now. But
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
my first real serious role was a startup for a company called JCT 600 in
Andy & Chris:
Ah!
Cally Walker:
based in Bradford.
Andy & Chris:
Are
Cally Walker:
And
Andy & Chris:
they
Cally Walker:
they
Andy & Chris:
car
Cally Walker:
set up
Andy & Chris:
dealers?
Cally Walker:
a leasing department
Andy & Chris:
Hmm,
Cally Walker:
and
Andy & Chris:
I’d say they’re cars, aren’t they?
Cally Walker:
yeah, they do like high end cars
Andy & Chris:
Yeah Oops
Cally Walker:
and
Andy & Chris:
Ha
Cally Walker:
a lot all sorts now, the massive. But when I was working with them, it was a start-up and there was myself and four other people in this leasing company. So I got really good grounding on a start-up from the beginning with really strong entrepreneurial managers around me. And then I did enjoy that role but from a very quite an early age I had a really high salary and a good company car, great health insurers. But when you’re in your early 20s that kind of stuff doesn’t mean very much.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Cally Walker:
And I really struggled in a corporate environment as an individual a lot. my friends were creative and there was a big scene in Leeds happening in the 90s where bars and restaurants were opening and it was becoming a really cool place to be
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Cally Walker:
and I wanted in so I’d had a mortgage from the late teens early 20s and I decided to remortgage my house I think it was about 24 or 25 and I built a bar called the Soul Kitchen in Leeds
Andy & Chris:
I will.
Cally Walker:
and I had that for around five years nearly died to be honest because I just became an alcoholic. I just loved it, but I loved, you know, all
Andy & Chris:
Don’t
Cally Walker:
the
Andy & Chris:
drink
Cally Walker:
scene
Andy & Chris:
your
Cally Walker:
and
Andy & Chris:
profits,
Cally Walker:
it…
Andy & Chris:
isn’t that what they say?
Cally Walker:
You know, yeah, don’t drink the profits, but I did anyway. But it was there for a purpose because I got it out of my system. I scratched the itch.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
And then from that, obviously, I met my ex-partner, Tony, and then we got together. And then I then didn’t have an income, so I decided to set up a marketing company, which was called Brainstorm Training. And it was a skills gap government-funded marketing company, whereby we were training skills
Andy & Chris:
Okay
Cally Walker:
gaps within the industry for hospitality and
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Cally Walker:
that was a big cash cow. So then what happened is I got pregnant with twins and I had the twins in Leeds which Clarendon were amazing, they were primed, they were in hospital for three months. My son was quite sick and it was quite a trying time and when they came out of hospital Leeds then became a really difficult place to have two young babies with the weather and
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Cally Walker:
you know suddenly you’ve gone from being an entrepreneur to being at home with two babies
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
and I felt really claustrophobic. So then we came over to Spain, which was 18 years ago, 19 years ago, and the government funded just stopped on the NVQ marketing company, just finished as government funding does sometimes.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Cally Walker:
And we, my ex-partner went to America to see a marketing guy who was doing marketing courses for dentists at that time.
Andy & Chris:
Oh well.
Cally Walker:
bit of a strange jump
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
but we
Andy & Chris:
it’s
Cally Walker:
decided
Andy & Chris:
interesting, yeah.
Cally Walker:
it was at the time when the funding was starting to be pulled from the NHS so there was more dentists going into private clinic
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Cally Walker:
and that’s kind of how my journey started and then it’s kind of it started off as consultancy and then it went into products into websites
Andy & Chris:
Huh.
Cally Walker:
social media we split up I think six years ago and then three years ago I I’m jumping quite a lot here, so you’ll probably have to go back, but then that’s when it brought me into America and Canada and the UK,
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Cally Walker:
well, existing in the UK as well. So
Andy & Chris:
And
Cally Walker:
that’s
Andy & Chris:
why-
Cally Walker:
kind of where it’s stemmed from, yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Why Malaga?
Cally Walker:
Because my auntie and uncle had an apartment here which we ended up buying
Andy & Chris:
Ah,
Cally Walker:
actually
Andy & Chris:
okay, right, so
Cally Walker:
and
Andy & Chris:
you
Cally Walker:
they’ve
Andy & Chris:
had
Cally Walker:
had
Andy & Chris:
somewhere
Cally Walker:
it for 27
Andy & Chris:
to go.
Cally Walker:
years so it’s kind of a family apartment. It’s now an Airbnb apartment and I absolutely love Malaga. Have you been?
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Cally Walker:
Yeah, the city is just amazing isn’t it?
Andy & Chris:
I enjoyed it. I mean,
Cally Walker:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Cally Walker:
yeah,
Andy & Chris:
most places
Cally Walker:
I just
Andy & Chris:
to be honest.
Cally Walker:
love Malaga. I think it’s just one of those beautiful, best kept secrets. And
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
it’s just, again, I’ve seen that change a lot in 18 years, but
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
I go a lot of traveling. It honestly is one of my favorite cities, yeah.
Andy & Chris:
So when you rocked up 18 years ago, you and ex-partner didn’t have a job.
Cally Walker:
Not really, no,
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Cally Walker:
no.
Andy & Chris:
Flip.
Cally Walker:
We came with a credit card,
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha
Cally Walker:
because we couldn’t
Andy & Chris:
ha!
Cally Walker:
sell our house. We did have a house in the UK, but we couldn’t sell it because the housing market at that time was pretty poor. Took a couple of years to sell that. And then in the end, when we sold that, we ended up buying the apartment that we invented off my auntie.
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
So when you said your part went to American Saw a dental marketing course, when was that?
Cally Walker:
Sorry.
Andy & Chris:
When was that? What
Cally Walker:
That
Andy & Chris:
year
Cally Walker:
would
Andy & Chris:
was
Cally Walker:
have
Andy & Chris:
that?
Cally Walker:
been, oh gosh, 19 years ago. So
Andy & Chris:
Okay,
Cally Walker:
I don’t know.
Andy & Chris:
early 2000s.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, so new contract was 2006
Cally Walker:
I’m going to go for 2004,
Andy & Chris:
was that
Cally Walker:
actually, because the twins would
Andy & Chris:
Yeah
Cally Walker:
have been about 10, 11 months old then. We
Andy & Chris:
Well,
Cally Walker:
actually.
Andy & Chris:
and that’s why I was just I was just linking it to that only from the point of view that I’ve seen the UK a new NHS contract came in 2006 and that did spawn quite a lot of dentists then starting
Cally Walker:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
to do more private treatment. So your timing, possibly whether it was by design or luck, I don’t know, but
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
identifying a marketing course then would have been really good timing and positioning for all the
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
dentists who perhaps weren’t gonna commit to the NHS. There was so much talk about redesigning it for about a couple of years before, wasn’t it? So that’s
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
probably about the time that you were then musing on what you might be doing. Now, interesting.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Cally Walker:
And then obviously, dentistry is a very different type of industry to being, and it takes a lot of care and passion to understand the character of dentists.
Andy & Chris:
Oh, definitely, yeah.
Cally Walker:
We saw with COVID lots of different people becoming consultants and changing path, but it’s quite a cynical market as well, because especially in the States, people are very Dentistry, people are passionate that are in this particular industry and they want quality, they want trust, they want credibility and that’s kind of one of the things that you have to learn and it takes time I think.
Andy & Chris:
I think probably early doors as well, especially when you were starting marketing was, you know, sales is still not a great word for dentists, but marketing would probably be, what do you mean? I have to, I have to do marketing. Doesn’t that diminish my responsibility and my position as a dentist?
Cally Walker:
heartily.
Andy & Chris:
I’d have thought you had to sort of overcome not only trying to sell a service that they need, but actually before you even get to that point, you’ve got to overcome the negativity towards what you wanna do. In most cases, every company accepts there’s marketing, doesn’t it? So, yeah. Yeah, well. It was the earliest days of digital marketing. That was kind of a term that wasn’t in common language back then, wasn’t it? It was adverts in newspapers and leaflet jobs. Yeah, well, when was Facebook
Cally Walker:
Exactly.
Andy & Chris:
started?
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Wasn’t it, back then, yeah. 2011 or something, 2014? Well, no, Facebook was earlier than that, wasn’t it? Facebook was 2003, 2004? Oh, was it? Was it Instagram that was about? Yeah,
Cally Walker:
your
Andy & Chris:
I think
Cally Walker:
Instagram
Andy & Chris:
it was earlier
Cally Walker:
was later.
Andy & Chris:
than that, yeah.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
So how’s it, so you obviously got clients in the UK, America, and Canada. So,
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
and do you only operate in the dental space, or do you
Cally Walker:
Yes,
Andy & Chris:
operate in
Cally Walker:
so
Andy & Chris:
just
Cally Walker:
like.
Andy & Chris:
purely in dentistry? So how has it come about that you’ve ended up with clients? Because that’s quite unusual to have a sector niche. but also cover different jurisdictions. So how’s that come about?
Cally Walker:
So, and it has been a steep learning curve. And I did actually take a business course on American business culture before I actually entered that market, because it’s a completely different
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Cally Walker:
animal. And also what I do love about working in the US is that they’re very abundant with referrals in terms of if you guys are brilliant, they want you to be with all their contacts. And so it is a very high referral business and a lot of networking. and I do enjoy that side of business as well.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Cally Walker:
But a completely different market in terms of how we are in the UK to how we are in the US and how
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Cally Walker:
we are in Canada. But I was invited into a networking group. That’s how it began. And from there, you have to then prove yourself, don’t you, with
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
everything.
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
Nothing’s easy in life. And I have an amazing team that I work with. I mean, I put everything down to the team. I can bring the vision. and I can be the networker and the front and do everything that’s needed but the team that I work with are amazing. I don’t mean that.
Andy & Chris:
They make
Cally Walker:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
you look good.
Cally Walker:
yeah they do. Exactly.
Andy & Chris:
Same as ours.
Cally Walker:
And they’re better than me at
Andy & Chris:
They
Cally Walker:
everything.
Andy & Chris:
make us look like we know what we’re doing. Oh, of course they do. So I imagine the work setup that you’ve got, you weirdly were probably quite well placed for Covid, because working remotely, that probably didn’t present you with as many challenges as it did others.
Cally Walker:
Well, we do have an office here. So we have this 12 of us in this office.
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Cally Walker:
But to be honest with Covid, we actually, I don’t know how to say this without, I don’t want it to sound like it dismissive of it, but we made the decision at the beginning of Covid that we weren’t going to close and go on furlough. We decided
Andy & Chris:
Right, yeah.
Cally Walker:
that we were going to do the best we could for the clients that we had. And especially with social media. Also our clients were in a state of fear as everybody was because
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah,
Cally Walker:
dentistry
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
was trep really badly as
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Cally Walker:
obviously you guys know. And we decided to do community projects through social media. So for example, we got all our clients to call all their patient lists over the age of 55 to check that they needed shopping or they were okay. Just things that have nothing to do with
Andy & Chris:
That’s
Cally Walker:
dentistry.
Andy & Chris:
clever.
Cally Walker:
And we did, you know, some of our clients did training. dental practice but we did other things instead
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Cally Walker:
and when the lockdown was finished they became pillars of their own community in most of our clients and so we
Andy & Chris:
because
Cally Walker:
took
Andy & Chris:
of
Cally Walker:
that
Andy & Chris:
the
Cally Walker:
decision
Andy & Chris:
way they treated their patients through that period.
Cally Walker:
through that period and you know the referrals that they got they just all went crazy
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
and the
Andy & Chris:
Nice
Cally Walker:
other thing
Andy & Chris:
one
Cally Walker:
I
Andy & Chris:
on
Cally Walker:
think
Andy & Chris:
the shopping.
Cally Walker:
is that
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, very nice. That’s a nice one.
Cally Walker:
Yeah, and doing shopping for older people and yeah,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, it’s a great one, isn’t
Cally Walker:
and
Andy & Chris:
it?
Cally Walker:
food banks and things like that. But I think, you know, you either come from a place of fear and love, don’t you, with
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
everything.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah,
Cally Walker:
And,
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
you know, with COVID, I could not have sat at home on furlough. Like, I couldn’t have done it because,
Andy & Chris:
No
Cally Walker:
you know, just having conversations with clients and the fear,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
initially, was just, taking action felt better than sitting at home worrying.
Andy & Chris:
Out of interest, obviously in the UK dental practices had to shut from the 23rd of March to the 8th of June and they sort of found out when the daily ticker tape went across the bottom of the screen in the Prime Minister’s briefing which, like I say, was pretty appalling. What was the situation in America and Canada? Were they forced to close for a period of time as well?
Cally Walker:
Yeah, but each state was different, obviously, because it’s such a vast place.
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Cally Walker:
So every state was different, and there were different politics within every state as well. But it just depended on that circumstance. And then because you’ve got such a vast area, everybody’s got different opinions as well.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cally Walker:
So yeah, I think globally everybody had a hard time with it, didn’t they? But it’s
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Cally Walker:
just, what can you do within your remake that’s important, I always feel.
Andy & Chris:
Yes,
Cally Walker:
Thanks for
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Cally Walker:
watching!
Andy & Chris:
yeah. And in terms of the work you do with dentists, some of the other things that you’ve talked about and you’ve done before, you seem to lean very heavily towards data and
Cally Walker:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
data-driven marketing and why that’s important. What sort of data should dentists be looking at? What data is important when we’re sort of talking in a marketing sense?
Cally Walker:
Yeah, so I won’t go into the digital marketing on my side. I’ll
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
give you something that your listeners can have that they can implement internally, which is easy for
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
them
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
to take away. Because from a digital marketing perspective, we’re looking at different variables, different ads and so on and campaigns. But
Andy & Chris:
show.
Cally Walker:
there are three areas that all dental or business owners should focus on in terms of if they’re spending externally on marketing. The first one is, does that marketing campaign make the phone ring? And if it makes the phone ring, when the phone’s wrong, does the person who is answering the phone know how to speak to that patient and get them to book in? The next stage is if the book ended the turn up, because that’s important, because there’s things you can do in between. And then when they turn up, are they moving forward for the treatment or getting the right advice to move forward for treatment or register as a new patient?
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Cally Walker:
So they’re the key areas internally what all business owners really should be looking at. at. There’s lots of variables I know in that but one of the biggest things that we find and the hardest things to change is spending external money on marketing websites or whatever and then we mystery shop all our clients.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Cally Walker:
We’ve got some clients we mystery shop weekly, they want us to mystery shop them weekly
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Cally Walker:
and you know knowing that I believe that every patient should be treated the same
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Cally Walker:
you know regardless who answers the phone they should get the same We also
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
monitor phobics as well, so we’re really heavily into phobic marketing. So we watch a video on a website and how long it would take them, how many hours they’d spend on the website before they pick the phone up or fill out a web form. And it’s two to three hours with some phobic conversations. We then record the call and listen. And then the personal reception is not showing empathy or
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Cally Walker:
at least sounding like they’ve got time for them.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
you know, knowing the history of that person’s journey to actually pick that phone up is kind
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Cally Walker:
of the bit that
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
we really focus on.
Andy & Chris:
We
Cally Walker:
So
Andy & Chris:
used
Cally Walker:
that
Andy & Chris:
to say,
Cally Walker:
data
Andy & Chris:
didn’t we?
Cally Walker:
is important.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. When we used to do courses, we would sort of say to people, you spend all this money. on making the phone ring and then you don’t answer it properly, you know, or, or the woman on reception says, Oh, hang on. Can you hold on a minute? It’s like, yeah,
Cally Walker:
and then they’re gone
Andy & Chris:
I
Cally Walker:
for
Andy & Chris:
was
Cally Walker:
six minutes.
Andy & Chris:
just, I was just saying that thing about that, that training and, and as a marketeer, it’s hard because you can come up the most creative campaign in the world that will get email clicks or the phone to ring or ads. But if the person at the other end isn’t trained, and prepared and well equipped to deal with those inquiries. The
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
whole thing falls down. In fact, it’s even worse, isn’t it? Because
Cally Walker:
it
Andy & Chris:
they’ve
Cally Walker:
is.
Andy & Chris:
gone from having a neutral view of your business to a negative view of your business based on the person. Yeah, definitely. Definitely,
Cally Walker:
I mean
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Cally Walker:
the
Andy & Chris:
that’s…
Cally Walker:
great thing from my end is that if the marketing is going really well it’s never the marketing company, it’s always the team and if it’s going bad it’s always our fault. So
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
that’s why we invest that time and training in from, we say from the start, from the minute someone clicks that campaign or whatever that marketing campaign is
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Cally Walker:
through to actually going forward for treatment. And like you said earlier it isn’t about sales, it’s about offering your menu of services.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Cally Walker:
I’ve just found out my dentist here does airflow. I love Airflow and I didn’t even
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
know. And I’ve been going through that horrible hygiene appointment and I was
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Cally Walker:
like, you do Airflow? Like, you know, just tell your patients
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
what
Andy & Chris:
let
Cally Walker:
you
Andy & Chris:
me
Cally Walker:
do.
Andy & Chris:
know.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
We were speaking to a dentist earlier on. He’s quite prolific on Instagram and he was talking about how that’s been good for business. What’s your take on that? You’ve got clients all over the, all over the planet. Are they, do they, do they engage with it? Do they truly understand the power of it? Is
Cally Walker:
Instagram.
Andy & Chris:
it, is it, or just generally social media?
Cally Walker:
Social media,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
yeah,
Andy & Chris:
Do
Cally Walker:
I
Andy & Chris:
you,
Cally Walker:
mean.
Andy & Chris:
do your, do your clients kind of engage with it in a strategic sense, as opposed to just see it as a thing they do?
Cally Walker:
Yeah, so this is quite a really good question actually because one of the things that’s important for, I mean Instagram’s
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
the biggest platform, dentists love Instagram obviously for obvious reasons,
Andy & Chris:
do
Cally Walker:
before and afters and all the rest
Andy & Chris:
although
Cally Walker:
of
Andy & Chris:
they’re
Cally Walker:
it.
Andy & Chris:
getting into the TikTok as well aren’t they?
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
More and more turning up on TikTok as well.
Cally Walker:
Yeah, well, I love TikTok.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
And I’ve just had a strategy meeting today with TikTok because I personally, from a personal perspective, love it because I like the educational side of it. But
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Cally Walker:
TikTok’s got a bad rep in terms of the dances and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
the, yeah, all that.
Andy & Chris:
it’s
Cally Walker:
And
Andy & Chris:
moving
Cally Walker:
so for me…
Andy & Chris:
on. I thought you were going to tell me how he does dancing. I thought you said, I love to talk about dancing in Malaga.
Cally Walker:
But yeah, Instagram is definitely the biggest platform and strategy is important. Don’t do social media if you don’t have a strategy. Don’t
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
do it just because you feel that you should turn up on social media because it’s pointless. Are you looking for followers? Are you looking to increase direct messages? And there’s
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
lots of variables on posting, as you know, with stories and reels
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
and all the rest of it.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
So it’s a massive part of… Like you just said, when we started it was… direct mail,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
adverts
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
and papers, leaflet drops. Now
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
all that is kind of like, it’s more or less purely digital.
Andy & Chris:
And how do your UK clients fare to your US and Canadian clients? Are we ahead of the pack, behind the pack? Pretty much it’s much of a muchness.
Cally Walker:
So I would, from a clinical perspective in terms of what’s out there, clinically in terms of resources, I’d say America has more choice and more opportunities for buying different, you know, they’re ahead of the curve on, sorry, I’m trying to think of the right word, on, you know, gadgets.
Andy & Chris:
That
Cally Walker:
What
Andy & Chris:
works.
Cally Walker:
a better word.
Andy & Chris:
Technology. How about
Cally Walker:
Technology.
Andy & Chris:
that? Technology. Yes. Although gadgets, we all know what you mean. We knew exactly what you meant. We were there. We were. Yeah,
Cally Walker:
I was going
Andy & Chris:
gadgets.
Cally Walker:
like that
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, get it.
Cally Walker:
with a wand or something. But on the flip side, from a marketing perspective, and I have this conversation, most of our UK clients have treatment coordinators,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Cally Walker:
and I’m talking about my own clients now, so we’ve worked with them heavily, but
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
that’s not something obvious. Most still, the clinicians in America still mainly do their own conversions, so in terms of taking treatment
Andy & Chris:
Mmm,
Cally Walker:
conversions.
Andy & Chris:
okay. Yeah.
Cally Walker:
So that’s the big opening for the US. But it is, when I say the market’s different, It’s kind of, you know, that would be my big standout is the way that they take in a patient and walk through those
Andy & Chris:
I’ve got two questions
Cally Walker:
stages.
Andy & Chris:
which sort of are linked but maybe not. So when you started in 2004, whatever it is, did you find that, say, the US was more advanced than the UK? Has there become less divergence? And are you able to use sort of almost like ideas from one part of the globe? to another part and then there’s sometimes things that just don’t work. So there’s quite a few questions in there, but I think it’s quite fascinating.
Cally Walker:
Yeah, I think it’s, well, I’ve only been working in the States for the last two and a half years. So that’s,
Andy & Chris:
Oh,
Cally Walker:
it’s
Andy & Chris:
okay,
Cally Walker:
quite
Andy & Chris:
right,
Cally Walker:
a new market
Andy & Chris:
okay,
Cally Walker:
for me.
Andy & Chris:
sorry.
Cally Walker:
But to answer the question about the does one thing work for one person and one thing for another, I personally think that from a marketing perspective, all prospects and patients work off in motion. So the wording, absolutely 100% is going to be different. Because we do Americanize something that definitely wouldn’t work in the UK. You mentioned earlier about the sales and profit and that aspect. I wouldn’t use that terminology with an English market, but I would 100% use it in a US market. And also the marketing is much more aggressive.
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Cally Walker:
So it’s much more price. I know there are some price point marketing, but I personally prefer trusting credibility as a marketing exercise rather than competing on price.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Cally Walker:
It’s the race to the bottom.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
So, but in the American market, I would say that in places like Miami and places that are more condensed with dentist practices or offices that the aggression on the marketing is completely different and it definitely wouldn’t work in the UK.
Andy & Chris:
Wow,
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
it’s interesting. It is it’s interesting then that you had to because they’re dental offices aren’t they?
Cally Walker:
Yes,
Andy & Chris:
They’re not dental practices.
Cally Walker:
so that’s another
Andy & Chris:
I mean,
Cally Walker:
nuance.
Andy & Chris:
that’s it’s just interesting that you sort of have to have even the different terminology Yeah,
Cally Walker:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
so is that you can relate and is there difference between Canada and the US?
Cally Walker:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
Is the cat
Cally Walker:
I mean…
Andy & Chris:
is Canada more UK or more US or sort of on its own?
Cally Walker:
The experiences that I’ve had, I’d say they’re more North American. I would definitely say more North American, yeah. And also, there’s a lot more… standards to meet in terms of advertising and marketing in Canada which are completely different. So there’s no GDPR in the US and Canada but there are quite high standards. In areas of Canada we can’t use testimonials or before and afters.
Andy & Chris:
Really?
Cally Walker:
So yeah, so we have to be quite
Andy & Chris:
flip.
Cally Walker:
strategic.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. You were saying you’ve been in the US about being very… price driven and they are, yeah, I’ve been to the States a fair few times and they’re billboard adverts, you know, lawyers, lawyers will call out other lawyers by name and
Cally Walker:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
basically say they’re rubbish, come to me
Cally Walker:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
type
Cally Walker:
but you
Andy & Chris:
thing.
Cally Walker:
wouldn’t be able to do that, would you?
Andy & Chris:
No,
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
no, and it’s just not very British either, is
Cally Walker:
And
Andy & Chris:
it?
Cally Walker:
you
Andy & Chris:
No.
Cally Walker:
wouldn’t do it anyway, even if you could.
Andy & Chris:
But do you see in the UK, do you see kind of culture and values starting what they can offer as a dental practice.
Cally Walker:
in the UK.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
100%. I mean, we’ve worked on this in probably about over a decade
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
as a business, as a marketing company. My culture for me is marketing.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
And going back to social media, a question about Instagram, I’m more interested in humanizing you and your team than I am about what type
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
I’m also interested in about what your Google reviews look like as a business and what they say about your team. I’m
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
not interested in whether you’re clean or whether you’ve got a tidy practice because that’s a given too.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
And I think that’s a big struggle as well. You know, we’re heavily getting into the AI conversation at the moment, but you know, if you don’t jump on the digital marketing bandwagon and get going, and if you’re, if you feel out, TikTok a great example, if you don’t feel that you’re the right person to front it, get a team member to do it but
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Cally Walker:
do not do it
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
because you know I know across globally excellent clinicians that are struggling because they can’t they haven’t digitally marketed themselves
Andy & Chris:
And I think
Cally Walker:
or
Andy & Chris:
once
Cally Walker:
they don’t
Andy & Chris:
you
Cally Walker:
have
Andy & Chris:
start
Cally Walker:
a footprint
Andy & Chris:
to fall behind, it’s hard.
Cally Walker:
yeah and
Andy & Chris:
You know,
Cally Walker:
it’s upsetting
Andy & Chris:
you’re playing catch up.
Cally Walker:
I
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
feel sorry for them
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
I do
Andy & Chris:
And then you kind of don’t really know
Cally Walker:
what
Andy & Chris:
where
Cally Walker:
to do
Andy & Chris:
to start. Yeah.
Cally Walker:
yeah
Andy & Chris:
Where do you see marketing going? We’ve been sort of talking about the history with leaflets and newspaper ads and the present day with social media and you sort of touched on AI. Where
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
do you think marketing is heading for the next
Cally Walker:
I’m
Andy & Chris:
few years?
Cally Walker:
really excited about the AI conversation because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
we’re all our team are in full training at the moment, we’ve just invested in some software, we’re heavily into it. For me, what I like about the AI conversation is that the biggest fear that, again, going from fear or love, the fear that people have is that obviously we’re going to be bombarded with a lot of AI on the internet,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
but going back to being genuine, because AI isn’t artificial, it’s put in there by somebody. is going to be important, marketing or not. Yeah, these AI images are great, but people are stupid. You know what’s AI generated, it isn’t. So humanization is going to be much more important, and being genuine is going to be much more important. And trust and credibility are going to become more important. So again, don’t sit back on AI. You’ve got to jump into it and be on the chat GBT. You’ve got to learn about it, because as a marketing company, we had a meeting two days ago. quickly become a dinosaur if we
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
don’t jump into this conversation and envelop it. So the so just going back to your question we’re grabbing lots of different softwares and using them and getting involved in them and we’re and we’re enjoying it we’re coming
Andy & Chris:
Right,
Cally Walker:
from
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
a passionate place and not a fearful place
Andy & Chris:
Good for
Cally Walker:
yeah
Andy & Chris:
you. Good for you. And
Cally Walker:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
it’s nice to hear you’ve got that approach because we were actually talking to a guy earlier on today about AI and where it’s going. And like you say, you kind of it feels like a similar emotion, but you go from excited and terrified.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
It’s not far from get from one place to another. But it’s nice to hear somebody who’s genuinely excited about it
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
and the opportunities it’s going to bring. It’s not all Skynet.
Cally Walker:
It’s
Andy & Chris:
No.
Cally Walker:
not. And you know, the thing is, you know, this data mining and all the stuff that people are frightened of, at the end of the day, you know, you’ll have heard this before, but we’re walking around with a phone that Google is listening to all the time if you don’t turn your settings off, you know. It’s over is all that. You’re walking around with yourself in
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
your mobile phone. And the other important thing about AI as well is, you know, for me, does it add value to the client and does it create capacity within my business? That’s the two areas that I’m interested in.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
And AI does both of those things. So
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
for example, you know, blog posts, you know, we’re having those written at the moment and proved. If we can develop a good structure for writing AI SEO granted blog posts, we can do two or three a month for a client instead of one or two. You know,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
we can do more, not less.
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. Um, just to sort of change tack for a bit. That’s a tricky one. So I was just thinking on that. Cause then the tricky part is you get desensitized to it. Yes. You know what I mean? It’s that whole, I think, what was it Oliver saying? That we get six or 10,000 almost adverts a day or something. It’s like,
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
it’s scary really. It’s a lot
Cally Walker:
Someone
Andy & Chris:
of
Cally Walker:
was
Andy & Chris:
things
Cally Walker:
saying to
Andy & Chris:
coming
Cally Walker:
me the other
Andy & Chris:
at
Cally Walker:
day,
Andy & Chris:
us.
Cally Walker:
if you’re gonna write a book, do it now, because if you write a book and you have it published, then it’s good to get that book out as quickly as possible, because that’s kind of something that, you’re not gonna trust things anymore, and that’s why it’s important to know your source.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm. Yes. Oh,
Cally Walker:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
yeah. Yeah.
Cally Walker:
yeah,
Andy & Chris:
Well, I think that’s why
Cally Walker:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
That’s a concern for lots of people isn’t it between what’s real and what isn’t real? Well, it’s a bit like isn’t it that you know bizarrely and it’s a bit of an abstract jump But when watching that ABBA voyage thing, you know, I always used to say well unless I see it with my own eyes I won’t believe it. But after going to see that avatar show, it’s now if I can touch it Then I probably know it’s true because they look so real seeing
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
it. Deep fake all that sort of stuff. Just to tell you a tack for a bit, in the intro I said that you were the founder of Dental Mavericks. What’s Dental Mavericks?
Cally Walker:
So Dental Mavericks is a volunteer led charity and we work predominantly in Morocco and we work in basically for children that don’t have access to any dental care.
Andy & Chris:
Oh well.
Cally Walker:
Our goals basically are always long term oral hygiene care, mid term goal fluoride treatment every six months and then short term goals is reduced between six and a half months. projects a year and we go and take children out of dental pain so it’s an emergency clinic. But on the back of that we’ve just got funding through a beautiful dentist called Nav and he’s been raising money for us in memory of his daughter who sadly died and he’s we’re about to build a clinic in the province of Shechshan which will be open on a
Andy & Chris:
Wow. Oh amazing.
Cally Walker:
project coming
Andy & Chris:
Oh
Cally Walker:
up.
Andy & Chris:
brilliant.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Why, why um, why Morocco? Mmm, yeah.
Cally Walker:
Well, Morocco is, I live in Malaga and Morocco
Andy & Chris:
It’s not
Cally Walker:
geographically
Andy & Chris:
far,
Cally Walker:
is,
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
you know, a half hour on a boat basically.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
We also work in Lebanon but I don’t take volunteers to Lebanon because it’s obviously quite a dangerous place to go but we also fund orphanages in Beirut as well and they’re kind of the two places but 80% predominantly is Morocco.
Andy & Chris:
Wow. Brilliant. So before the facility that NAV’s funding, do you require clinicians to volunteer their time
Cally Walker:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
to go to Morocco to treat the kids and then come
Cally Walker:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
back? Right.
Cally Walker:
Yeah, so the trips are usually about one week, and we do five days clinic in that week. And we work in the Atlas Mountains, the Rift Mountains, and a town called Esowero, which is the gateway to the Sahara Desert. So three specific areas.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Cally Walker:
We also team up with local governments and another charity called the Eve Branson Foundation, which is the mother of Richard Branson, who we’ve been working with for 10 years in the Atlas. And then in Esowero, So we’re working with Moroccan ground teams. And we’ve got a lot of history there. We’re 13 years in.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
So we’re very well, I’d say, grounded, connected. And all the kids that we treat, we’re treating them from kindergarten through to 16.
Andy & Chris:
Wow, I mean, this
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
is quite a significant CSR project.
Cally Walker:
It
Andy & Chris:
What
Cally Walker:
is.
Andy & Chris:
was the what was the kind of the spark to start motivation those 13 years ago? Why was it that you felt that this was something you wanted to do?
Cally Walker:
I’m just trying to think of the book. I read a book called Emotional Intelligence. And it goes through each decade of your life. And when you hit your 40s, you’re predominantly thinking about giving back. You know, like lots of people start doing yoga, don’t they? And they
Andy & Chris:
But
Cally Walker:
start,
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Cally Walker:
like,
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
you know, they start doing fundraising and stuff in their 40s. And apparently it’s to do with this emotional intelligence. It’s Simon Golding, that’s how I’m trying to think of the author. And that was, reading that book was the beginning of it. And I think at the time, we were trying to get into help with the charities at the time. I think we offered our marketing services or we offered time or whatever
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Cally Walker:
and in the end we thought We had a friend as well in Malaga who went to Morocco a lot He had a bike company doing Endora bikes and he took He took us to a place called El Jabbar and they had one dentist for 150,000 kids and it was
Andy & Chris:
Oh
Cally Walker:
kind
Andy & Chris:
my
Cally Walker:
of
Andy & Chris:
goodness.
Cally Walker:
like Why don’t we just do it here because it’s geographically perfect
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
and it’s easy to get to from the UK
Andy & Chris:
Right,
Cally Walker:
So
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
that’s how it was born took six clients and just sent them a letter and said do you fancy coming and the first trip was horrendous. It was like we had no equipment and you know it was really naive and badly run and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
then it just fell from there really. Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Wow, what a great project. That’s brilliant, actually, yeah.
Cally Walker:
Yeah it was an adventure charity that turned into more serious stuff.
Andy & Chris:
Right,
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
yeah. Could you perhaps let us have a link to the website
Cally Walker:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
and details? We can drop it in the show notes because there
Cally Walker:
Yeah
Andy & Chris:
may
Cally Walker:
absolutely
Andy & Chris:
well be the
Cally Walker:
thank
Andy & Chris:
UK
Cally Walker:
you.
Andy & Chris:
dentists or dental professionals that
Cally Walker:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
might have capacity to get involved in helping in some
Cally Walker:
love
Andy & Chris:
way
Cally Walker:
to.
Andy & Chris:
or other.
Cally Walker:
Thank you, yes.
Andy & Chris:
Brilliant. Oh, fantastic. You’ve had… An incredibly diverse entrepreneurial career, you know, from the pub to the bar, to
Cally Walker:
It’s alright.
Andy & Chris:
setting up the business there and setting up the charity that works out of Morocco. What’s the one thing that you would take, if you had to pass on one message to other people about your entrepreneurial journey, what’s the key takeaway from you, from your own experience?
Cally Walker:
I think, you know… Consistent persistence, I think, is, you know, like, you know, being an entrepreneur is quite lonely and it can
Andy & Chris:
Hmm?
Cally Walker:
actually be, you know, it can take years sometimes. You just feel like you’re droilers striving or you’re on the hamster wheel and you’re not getting anywhere. But I think if you believe in yourself and you believe, you know, you get up and you work hard as well and you create a good team and you focus on your team and your culture and this consistent persistence of just keeping on that level and making sure people feel curing the role, they’ve developed. I do one to 18 years I’ve done one to one 10 minutes a month every month with each team member. Never failed it still works now. So communication, people know where you’re going and that’s more than one thing isn’t it but
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Cally Walker:
you know that consistent persistence of delivering and being who you are and doing
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Cally Walker:
what you say you are that’s the key
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Cally Walker:
thing and just don’t give up.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
If you believe in it don’t give in it comes eventually.
Andy & Chris:
I think what’s interesting is I think that’s the life of an entrepreneur. It is a mixed bag. It’s doing a lot of things, keeping lots of plates spinning and keeping lots of things
Cally Walker:
It
Andy & Chris:
on the
Cally Walker:
is.
Andy & Chris:
go at once, isn’t it?
Cally Walker:
And it can be exhausting, and especially when you’re getting your 30s and you have kids,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. Mm.
Cally Walker:
because you’ve got that to contend with, and obviously a relationship and all the rest of it, but
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Cally Walker:
it’s just digging in, and if you’ve got a good team, they’ll look after you when the ship’s rocking.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
But
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Cally Walker:
they won’t if they don’t like you.
Andy & Chris:
definitely. Yeah. No, it’s not also that
Cally Walker:
They really
Andy & Chris:
thing about,
Cally Walker:
won’t.
Andy & Chris:
but that thing about the resilience as well, isn’t it? Because it’s, you know, you have a vision, but there’s times when nobody else can see it. So believing that thing you were saying about focus and the persistence of just believing in what you’re doing and making sure that everybody keeps kind of saying with you for it.
Cally Walker:
Yeah, and as entrepreneurs we fall in love with things that are our own ideas and we get
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Cally Walker:
a little bit like, you know, you expect everyone to come along,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
you
Andy & Chris:
you
Cally Walker:
know,
Andy & Chris:
get a bit
Cally Walker:
with
Andy & Chris:
obsessed.
Cally Walker:
it. So you’ve got to always have buy-in, always.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, definitely.
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
The flip side to that question is, what’s the worst bit of advice you’ve ever had?
Cally Walker:
the worthwhile, sorry.
Andy & Chris:
The worst, the worst bit of advice you’ve ever had.
Cally Walker:
Um… I think really my, I think from a financial point of view, I think, you know, I don’t have regrets, I don’t go down the regret thing, but from a financial point of view, it’s not because of the charity, but I’ve always been led by experience and travel and I’ve kind of done my things the wrong way around, whereas now, you know, I’m in my fifties now and I’m really focused on making sure that I’m financially secure, which is going obviously well now, but I should have really focused on that a little bit earlier. So really what I probably should have done is started dental mavericks now and done the other bits
Andy & Chris:
Right,
Cally Walker:
I’ve done it back
Andy & Chris:
yep.
Cally Walker:
to front a little bit That’s kind of the you know, that’s one of the bits of advice to myself that would probably go actually that’s but
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
then again I wouldn’t have had the energy
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, or the experience, and the
Cally Walker:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
experience
Cally Walker:
so
Andy & Chris:
is what makes
Cally Walker:
yeah
Andy & Chris:
you a RSS. I imagine there’s thousands of kids in Morocco that would disagree as well.
Cally Walker:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
totally.
Andy & Chris:
So it’s…
Cally Walker:
And you know, life experience, it’s all about that, isn’t it? It’s not about
Andy & Chris:
And there’s
Cally Walker:
new
Andy & Chris:
probably
Cally Walker:
settees.
Andy & Chris:
people, I mean, and this is, I always think this is fantastic, the fact that you have no idea how you touch people during your lives, you know, in your five years in your bar, you know, you don’t know the people that came into your bar, how they might still remember your bar, or relationships before. And I think there’s so many of those things that we have absolutely no idea. It’s a bit like when you’re on holiday and someone takes a picture of… you
Cally Walker:
Hehehehe
Andy & Chris:
know, and you happen to be in the background. And then in 40 years time, you’re in someone’s life. I find that always a quite fascinating way.
Cally Walker:
Yeah, I do actually get sometimes some people on Facebook, you know, because we all age obviously, and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah?
Cally Walker:
it’s
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
nearly 20 odd years ago, and then I’m like, oh, is that? And they’re like, do you make the… You know, it’s like, oh
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
God,
Andy & Chris:
do you remember me in
Cally Walker:
oh,
Andy & Chris:
the
Cally Walker:
hi.
Andy & Chris:
bar? Yeah. Callie, we always finish up with our guests in the same
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
way. So we have two questions for you. And the first one is, you’re a fly on the wall. Where are you? What’s that situation? What room are you in? What’s happening? Dun,
Cally Walker:
Right,
Andy & Chris:
dun, dun.
Cally Walker:
so I really had to give this some thought because I’m quite a nosy person, but
Andy & Chris:
Okay.
Cally Walker:
I’ve just finished Gold Dust Woman, which is all about Stevie Nicks.
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Cally Walker:
And one of the best bits about the book was the making of the Rumours album. Do you like Fleetwood Mac?
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, they’re a great band.
Cally Walker:
So it was all about the breakup of Steve Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham and how all those songs were written about and how they were all arguing and
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Cally Walker:
taking copious amounts of cocaine. I mean the chaos must have been crazy,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
but just to fly on the wall in that studio because it just sounded like crazy chaos. But out of that, that amazing album is one of
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Cally Walker:
my
Andy & Chris:
true,
Cally Walker:
all-time
Andy & Chris:
it came
Cally Walker:
favourite
Andy & Chris:
brilliant.
Cally Walker:
albums and that came out of it. couple of days so I think that would have been a you know a good fly on the wall experience
Andy & Chris:
It’s
Cally Walker:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
funny isn’t it how many songs or albums when you understand the situations that they were in at that time, you know, the music makes more sense, but you can really understand those emotions that go into it. It’s quite remarkable.
Cally Walker:
I don’t
Andy & Chris:
managed
Cally Walker:
have
Andy & Chris:
to park
Cally Walker:
a break
Andy & Chris:
it to
Cally Walker:
up out
Andy & Chris:
one
Cally Walker:
that
Andy & Chris:
side
Cally Walker:
could even
Andy & Chris:
almost,
Cally Walker:
be in
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
the same room.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
I don’t think they could maybe, I don’t know.
Andy & Chris:
Let it flow through that. It’s ABBA, I suppose, is another ABBA reference. Yeah, yeah. It’s that sort of thing. I remember
Cally Walker:
yet.
Andy & Chris:
watching something about the Beatles and they were saying, even when they all knew they were gonna sort of go their own ways, they still were making music. And I just think that’s amazing that in a way that creativity almost transcends. It’s almost like they want a greater good. I know that sounds a bit naff, but you know what they want to create something special Yeah,
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
so they almost park their own Pissed-offness with each other to create that something because it matters so
Cally Walker:
Totally.
Andy & Chris:
much Yeah, yeah, that’s nice. And who
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
would you meet Kelly if you were given the opportunity to meet somebody?
Cally Walker:
Right, so this was my hardest one because this went on and on and on, but I’m going to go for someone who’s a little bit more in the moment, and it’s obviously got to be a woman, which is Greta Gerwig, the director of Barbie.
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Cally Walker:
She’s
Andy & Chris:
Okay.
Cally Walker:
just hit a billion
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Cally Walker:
on that, but what I am going to say is that I did go to see the movie this week,
Andy & Chris:
Thanks
Cally Walker:
and
Andy & Chris:
for watching!
Cally Walker:
obviously I’m from a time when Barbie wasn’t a great kind of role model for women. It was kind of a bit sexist.
Andy & Chris:
Yep.
Cally Walker:
I felt a bit sorry for the men actually in the movie. I liked it but it kind of really confused me. And I thought she was really clever having all the people from sex education in there, which the English market.
Andy & Chris:
But
Cally Walker:
But
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Cally Walker:
when I came in to speak to, we’ve got a Gen Z in our team, and I came in and we have a huddle and I mentioned it. And she went, no, you’ve got it wrong. She said, it’s all about how fragile the male ego can be and how it doesn’t need to be on the back of women. And I was like, okay. I said, but there were no strong role models for Menchement. Well, Ken was because he got over that. And I was like, oh yeah, that’s it. But I was a bit disturbed by the movie, I think, because I’m just so used to not having that kind of like feeling for me, you know?
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Cally Walker:
So I thought she was clever, but yeah, I’m gonna go with her because
Andy & Chris:
It’s funny,
Cally Walker:
that’s a massive achievement.
Andy & Chris:
I’ve not seen the film, but
Cally Walker:
Yeah, it’s…
Andy & Chris:
on the basis of that, with that insight, I should probably go and see it. But
Cally Walker:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
I’ve heard the soundtrack’s very good.
Cally Walker:
Yeah, yes it is.
Andy & Chris:
Oh. Really? Yeah, supposedly the soundtrack’s really good,
Cally Walker:
Yeah, and it’s hilarious.
Andy & Chris:
yeah. That wasn’t like I’d taken a piss. No,
Cally Walker:
No.
Andy & Chris:
no.
Cally Walker:
Ha ha ha.
Andy & Chris:
No, a violin counts, the soundtrack is very, very good. Okay, there
Cally Walker:
And it’s very funny.
Andy & Chris:
we go. Brilliant.
Cally Walker:
Yeah. If you can, you go in with an open mind. And of course we all got dressed up in pink and, you know,
Andy & Chris:
Of course.
Cally Walker:
went the whole log. Yeah, because
Andy & Chris:
I think I’m going to wait until it comes to Netflix.
Cally Walker:
you don’t want to get dressed up in pink or. Oh God.
Andy & Chris:
What do you mean not dressed in pink? I’ve got a pink tie of chairs all day.
Cally Walker:
You’re Barbie
Andy & Chris:
Lovely.
Cally Walker:
ready.
Andy & Chris:
Oh yeah, in a Barbie world. That was wonderful. Like I said, I think you’ve done a lot of stuff. I think you are a true entrepreneur. The way you
Cally Walker:
Thank you.
Andy & Chris:
move and twist and dive into new markets and make those leaps of faith without necessarily knowing where you’re going to land. But you do land, which is good. And genuinely, like I said, I think the dental mavericks work sounds really important. So do let us have the link for that.
Cally Walker:
I will.
Andy & Chris:
and we’ll drop it in the group and we’ll see if we can help on that side, which would be great. But now thank you for your time today, it’s been really good. Yeah, it’s been brilliant, thank you.
Cally Walker:
Nice to meet you both. Thank
Andy & Chris:
You
Cally Walker:
you for
Andy & Chris:
too,
Cally Walker:
inviting me.
Andy & Chris:
not at all. Our pleasure.
Cally Walker:
Thank
Andy & Chris:
Cheers,
Cally Walker:
you.
Andy & Chris:
Caddy, keep well. Bye.
Cally Walker:
Bye.
Andy & Chris:
Cheers.
