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Dentology Podcast with Fiona Dwyer


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Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Fiona Dwyer

Episode Release Date – Monday 15 April 2024

Andy & Chris (00:00.322)
Hello, hello. How are you doing? I’m very good. Thank you very much. How’s you doing? Very good. Before we start, want to share something. So FeedSpot put out a list of the most popular podcasts. I should have a t-shirt on, I’m ready. And get this out of the UK Dental Podcast, Dentology ranked number one.

by traffic, social media following, and freshness. Freshness. Imagine being ranked number one for freshness. Lovely, lovely, like a bit of freshness. Absolutely superb. I can smell that freshness from here, Andrew. So we hope more people listen, and we hope more people subscribe, because that would be absolutely wonderful. Anyway, today’s episode, we’re very fortunate. We’re joined by Fiona Dwyer. And Fiona is a PR consultant and coach.

but in a former life was also an ITV journalist and senior reporter. Excellent. Which is going to be fascinating. Excellent. I must admit when I first saw her I did sort of vaguely think, I might have recognised you from something. Well, let’s find out more about you. Welcome Fiona, how are you doing?

Fiona Dwyer (00:58.347)
Hello, I’m very well, thank you and congratulations on being number one. I hope you’ve written a press release or at least got it out on all your social media already.

Andy & Chris (01:05.526)
We have, we have. Yes, we’re very good at playing our own trumpet on this. So to start with, you’ve had an extraordinary career, which we’re gonna kind of get to, but before we get to that, quite often there’s clues to who we become from our childhood. So is there a time you can look back on your childhood and say, that’s why I’m the person I am today?

Fiona Dwyer (01:10.591)
Excellent. Well done.

Fiona Dwyer (01:30.395)
Wow, that’s a hard one. I don’t know. Nobody in my family does what I do. So I’m the youngest of seven children. Yes. Yeah, and we’re all sort of born in eight years. We’re Irish Catholics. So my parents met over here actually, but they were both Irish and they came over here. They met over here as well. And so we were all born in England.

Andy & Chris (01:32.925)

Andy & Chris (01:36.836)

Seven! One of seven! Wow!

Andy & Chris (01:48.398)
All born within eight years.

Fiona Dwyer (01:58.279)
in the West Midlands. We were brought up in Walsall in the West Midlands. And so we support Walsall Football Club by the way. Just putting it out there. So my dad was a doctor, my mum was a nurse, my siblings, I’m the youngest, my siblings were either went into sort of nursing or accountancy, it was a more sort of project management. I’m the only one who went into journalism so I’m not quite sure

Andy & Chris (02:00.982)
Oh yeah.

Andy & Chris (02:05.134)
That’s alright. Some honesty.

Andy & Chris (02:19.342)

Fiona Dwyer (02:27.043)
where that came from. I just always wanted to read the news. I sort of would see people reading. I just wanted, I used to see people, BBC Midlands today it was, I used to see them reading the news and I sort of thought, oh I could do that. And I thought, how do I get to do that? And it’s, oh it’s by being a journalist. So I thought, right, I want to be a journalist. So that’s kind of how I went about it. But bizarrely, sorry, just a very funny story which I probably shouldn’t tell you, but there is a photograph of me.

Andy & Chris (02:48.418)
Did you?

Andy & Chris (02:53.57)
Keep going, keep going.

Fiona Dwyer (02:55.339)
There is a photograph of me when I was literally tiny tot sitting on the potty reading the newspaper. So I think it was meant to be.

Andy & Chris (03:02.626)

Brilliant. I was going to ask, was my children, my daughters especially, when they were younger, we had so many dance performances and stuff. And I was thinking, were you that sort of little girl who would sit there and just pretend to read the news? You’d get a little paper with a, you know, a little desk with some papers, knock them down and do stuff like that. By the sounds of things, possibly because you read the newspaper already when you’re in the potty.

Fiona Dwyer (03:28.219)
I think I just read the newspaper but I don’t even know if I knew what I was reading at the time but there is literally a picture of me reading the newspaper and I can only have been what 18 months or two I don’t know what it was so that’s quite remarkable. No it was a night way up I will hope.

Andy & Chris (03:36.51)
Mm-hmm. Wow. Wow Is it upside down? Yeah, I’m fresh look at that you’ve had you’ve had a decent spell of time in the media industry How how did you get into it? I’m just saying when did you start and what was it like back then because you know now people see Media very much in a digital frame. Whereas with you it would have been very analog So yeah, how did you get into that and what would you look like back then?

Fiona Dwyer (04:04.1)
Well, they didn’t do journalism degrees when I did my degree. So I started my degree in 1987 and I went to Trinity and All Saints in Leeds, which is now called Trinity University, but at that time it was college, it was in the time of uni’s, polys and colleges. But I chose that degree because it was a joint honours, I did a year of French and public media then I swapped to English and public media. But in the public media side, I was

There was an option to do, there was a journalism option, as well as a marketing option, a public relations option, and what have you, and that was the closest I could get to doing something in journalism. But the great thing about the course was that every year you had to do six weeks work experience, and I thought that was brilliant, because that meant I would have to work in the media somewhere, and it would go on my CV.

Andy & Chris (04:40.384)

Andy & Chris (04:49.074)
Oh well.

Andy & Chris (04:53.704)

Fiona Dwyer (04:54.015)
So I had it sort of planned out in my head that this is what I was gonna do and I would get work experience so that I’d have all this, I’d get contacts and what have you in the media so that I could progress. And so my first, so my first bylines actually were from my work experience was on the newspaper back at home, the Walsall Advertiser. It was the weekly free newspaper. And so that was my, so that was the byline, so by Fiona Dwyer, if anyone who doesn’t know what a byline is.

Andy & Chris (05:00.909)

Andy & Chris (05:15.9)
Alright, yeah.

Andy & Chris (05:23.058)
Ah, I was going to ask you what a byline meant. Oh, I see, right, okay.

Fiona Dwyer (05:25.435)
Yes, literally it just means that you’ve got a by with your name after it. So they were my first bylines which was amazing and that was also my first celebrity interview and it was with Brenda Blethin who was the actress who was playing at Wolverhampton Grand Theatre and I never actually met her, it was a phone interview so but she was so lovely and I was thinking oh my god she thinks I’m a real journalist.

Andy & Chris (05:29.492)
Oh cool.

Andy & Chris (05:39.246)
Oh yeah!

Andy & Chris (05:47.846)

Andy & Chris (05:53.821)
Ha ha ha.

Fiona Dwyer (05:54.993)
And I was being a journalist, I wasn’t qualified at that time.

Andy & Chris (05:57.454)
She was probably on the other end of the phone call going, I bet she thinks I’m a real actor. Everybody has it.

Fiona Dwyer (06:02.911)
But I’ve made a piece and I’ve got a byline so I was absolutely over the moon and I was like I’ve interviewed Brenda Blethen. So yeah, so that was really cool. I’ve got a file, yes. Yeah, so no that’s good. But then my next one was I worked at BBC Radio Leeds, so in programme, so that was my first radio experience as well. And my first time going down to do a Vox pop.

Andy & Chris (06:11.114)
you keep that original one if you got like the original one yeah brilliant that’s great brilliant

Fiona Dwyer (06:29.375)
into Leeds, I had to walk down into Leeds city centre and in those days you used, it was called a Ewer, a Ewer machine and it was literally a tape so you recorded on tape because then you’d have to splice and stick the tape together when you were doing it, it wasn’t just in and out edit, it was actual tape so you’d carry it on your shoulder, it was like a big heavy bag thing and you’d go with your microphone and you’d have to stop people in the street and ask them a question to do a Vox pop.

Andy & Chris (06:41.82)
Oh, right, okay.

Fiona Dwyer (06:58.363)
So I can’t remember what the Vox Pop was about now, but I thought, I thought I was terrified because I thought no one’s gonna want to talk to me. How do I actually stop somebody in, you know, in the shopping centre and say I’m working for it? Well, and I just did and I just, I assumed confidence and I just thought they all think that I have this confidence because I’m working on the radio and they won’t think anything of it if I just interrupt them, interrupt them walking down the street and say excuse me, you know.

Andy & Chris (07:05.614)
Hmm. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (07:18.732)

Andy & Chris (07:25.623)

Fiona Dwyer (07:25.971)
I’m from Radio Leeds, can you just tell me about XYZ? So that was how I got my work experience. No. Nobody does in general for box pops. It’s kind of like, no, I’m too busy. I’ve got to get back to work. No, I’ve got, you know.

Andy & Chris (07:32.286)
And did most people say yes on that experience or there were some people who said, oh really? Oh really? They just keep walking. But interestingly, I wonder whether today with the advent of social media and people energy taking pictures and reels and stories and filming themselves, if you went out today into a busy shopping street with a microphone, I think it’d be quite different. I think people would be way keener to engage. Really?

Fiona Dwyer (07:58.431)
Not really if depending on what yes, I mean I only left ITV because I worked at Yorkshire Calendon, you know, I TV Yorkshire. So what would have been your television and I But even I only left completely Two and a half nearly three years ago. And so when we were doing Vox pops then and people would still walk past you They’d be rushing past they didn’t want to be on television. They’d rather die than be on television. They would

Andy & Chris (08:06.851)

Andy & Chris (08:22.36)

Andy & Chris (08:26.91)
I thought it would have changed. I suppose people are still people aren’t they?

Fiona Dwyer (08:29.58)
Yes, they just didn’t want to say anything or some people would stop and they’d say, well what do you want to talk about? And then they’d be having a chat and then they’d say, can we record this? Because you have to ask permission if they’re going to be on camera. And then they’d say, oh no, I don’t want to be on telly. And I’m like, well why have you been? I’m on a deadline, come on.

Andy & Chris (08:41.751)

Andy & Chris (08:47.618)
Having a conversation with me. Yeah It’s a it’s a great sales though, isn’t it? I mean, it’s the classic sales Um, you have to keep going keep going keep asking Otherwise if you’d have been knocked down after the first five you’d have gone back and probably never done it again That’s how it’s a brilliant lesson to just resilience, isn’t it?

Fiona Dwyer (09:02.288)
Yeah, sometimes-

Yes it is. I think sometimes you just have to, sometimes you’re really lucky and you get the people that you need straight away because you go out with the idea right I need this number of people to say something and you want to get opposing views because you don’t want, unless everybody, if it’s a question everyone is overwhelmingly in favour or against or whatever, but you want to try and get a whole mixture of views so that you get, so that your report is balanced.

Andy & Chris (09:12.26)

Andy & Chris (09:17.228)

Andy & Chris (09:25.046)

Andy & Chris (09:29.994)

Andy & Chris (09:34.182)
I’d be never had to be it’d be great to know what the first one was wasn’t it if you could remember what it was What it was about, you know Well, I suppose you just don’t think about it. You must have done so many I suppose they sort of like I just think it’s an interesting when someone shoves a microphone in your face. Oh Yeah, and isn’t it an industry? I recently watched the morning show with Jennifer Aniston and Ruth Whisperspoon on Apple TV. It’s brutal

Fiona Dwyer (09:39.067)
I know, I was racking my things. Can’t remember.

Fiona Dwyer (09:47.435)
through the years.

Andy & Chris (10:01.042)
It looks like a brutal industry. Is that kind of what it’s like? Is it as harsh and as brutal as that? Or is it like Anchorman? Yes. Yeah. That was good.

Fiona Dwyer (10:10.932)
Or drop the dead donkey. It can be, but you have to be on the ball. You have to be… We were quite lucky where we were because we were all sort of like a sort of family really at Calendar News where I worked. And we all looked out for each other. But yes, we all wanted to, you know, it was great if you had the top story.

but you need to sort of help and support each other along the way. It can be brutal, it can be… You have to accept that if somebody’s on deadline, you can’t interrupt someone. You have to have quite a thick skin in the sense that if you need some information or if somebody comes to you, because I’m a really polite person, and if I’m on deadline and I’m writing something and I haven’t got… or I’m editing and I haven’t got time, I’m literally… I’ve got five minutes to go or ten minutes to go.

Andy & Chris (11:04.161)

Fiona Dwyer (11:06.003)
and someone’s trying to talk to you, you’re kind of like, you know, I can’t talk to you. Go away, do you know what I mean? And you have to literally be, can’t talk to you. So you might seem rude, but you’re not really being rude, and everybody understands.

Andy & Chris (11:08.951)

Andy & Chris (11:13.016)

Andy & Chris (11:16.962)
It’s an interesting one. I can’t remember who was the guest that we had who had that phone person in the Trade Towers or something, the Twin Trade Towers, or was it? An interview I was watching. And someone was saying, you know, it was the first time they were interviewing someone and then they just happened to have this phone number of this person who’d been in the bombing and then they just kept rigging him. And they said that it was really awkward.

in the fact, but they said somehow you sort of a bit like you’re saying on the rudeness. They just sort of blocked out any of that personal stuff because they just had a story that they wanted to get and get delivered and out. It’s fascinating. Fascinating. Yeah. And over the years you’ve got to interview some quite remarkable people, haven’t you? Dame Judi Dench, John Hurt and others. What was that like?

Fiona Dwyer (11:53.333)

Fiona Dwyer (12:02.703)
Yeah, I mean they were just gifts really, brilliant actually. They came to our region because they were getting honorary degrees, it’s a hard word to say, honorary, honorary degrees. And so they were in my patch, so I was a reporter for this area, so I got to do their interviews. And I think, but the most important thing, I always researched them beforehand as

Andy & Chris (12:28.437)


Fiona Dwyer (12:32.275)
and it wasn’t just about, so, but they were so gracious and when you sort of see them, you sort of think, oh, I hope they’re really nice people. And they actually were. And I remember with Dame Judy, she, the camera wasn’t working or something, with the cat, so the cat, so she just had to wait a little bit and I was really apologetic. I’m saying, I’m so sorry, because she had a whole line of people who were going to interview her. So I’m so sorry, we’ll get this technical issue sorted. And she was going, don’t worry about it, it’s absolutely fine.

Andy & Chris (12:44.15)
Mmm. That’s nice.

Andy & Chris (12:55.06)

Fiona Dwyer (13:00.843)
So it was just really nice that she was so nice.

Andy & Chris (13:02.794)
It’s nice. Was that pre-Google days or were you able to Google research? I’m just thinking you must have been at a time when your researcher was just looking through lots of bits of paper and stuff like that.

Fiona Dwyer (13:10.419)
I was giggling at that point.

Fiona Dwyer (13:14.715)
Oh, at that time we were googling and my goodness what a difference that makes. But yes, when I first started it was you just had to have the information that was sent to you or you’d be looking, you would have, you know, you’d get researchers to look or you would, it was just what you knew already. You kind of just had to sort of, you know, find out or if you had time, which often you don’t have time.

Andy & Chris (13:18.691)

Andy & Chris (13:32.931)

Andy & Chris (13:38.872)

Fiona Dwyer (13:38.979)
I guess you would have gone to the library. Usually you’d ring somebody in the library to ask them. And it was also, when I very first started, we didn’t even have mobile phones. In the early 90s, you didn’t really have mobile phones. So if you were out on a story, wherever you were, you could be an hour and a half away from base.

Andy & Chris (13:42.26)


Andy & Chris (13:54.444)

Fiona Dwyer (14:07.647)
But whenever you finish, you would always ring the news desk before you left in case a story had… You’d have to find a phone box, you know. And you would… Yeah. Or if you had a phone card. So you would phone the news desk just to make sure that nothing had happened and no story had broken around you so that you needed to be diverted before you got back with the story that you were on. So that was it. That one really showed my age, but that one really…

Andy & Chris (14:13.878)
I was just saying, did you have to have like coins or something? Like a bag full of coins. Oh wow.

Andy & Chris (14:25.443)

Andy & Chris (14:32.042)
Wow. But it’d be really interesting for, I think for our listeners that, you know, I sort of, I don’t know what our demographic is, but you sort of think they’re probably young, mid-30s maybe. And one, they probably don’t remember a world really probably without Google and researching and Wikipedia, even though what it is. And definitely probably will never ever have used a phone box.

Fiona Dwyer (14:57.976)
No, yes. And if you’re working…

Andy & Chris (14:58.279)
It makes you think, do you remember those telephone directors? Oh, they just fold out. Unbelievable, it’s like a whole different world, isn’t it? Cough cough. Yeah.

Fiona Dwyer (15:06.227)
Yeah, and if you found a phone box and it wasn’t working, you had to find another phone box until you want, you know, one that hadn’t been vandalised or something. So yeah, so that was it. But also, if you had time to research, if you knew there was a story coming up that you were going to do or it was a particular issue that you were researching, you’d go to the library and you’d go through the microfiches. Do you remember that? So you’d literally go through and scan all the old newspaper articles and things like that.

Andy & Chris (15:14.53)
Well, for me.

Andy & Chris (15:27.05)
Right, yeah. Microfiche, yeah.

Andy & Chris (15:34.242)
We used to have those in the bank and in the library, I seem to remember. I think it’s incredible where we are now in terms of research tools that are available to us. It’s become so much quicker. I think the only challenge with it is that now you can’t necessarily directly trust the source. Because back in the day when you were researching against published documents, you hoped there was kind of a process that went through to get published. So there was a degree of kind of truth with it. You’re supposed to Wikipedia. Whereas now, well now, yeah, I mean, people Google things and they get what they believe.

Fiona Dwyer (15:36.839)
Yeah, yeah, in the library.

Andy & Chris (16:04.416)
is a fact or the truth but there isn’t really any filter of what gets uploaded so whilst in one hand it’s easier to get information it still needs to be cross-checked and validated somehow.

Fiona Dwyer (16:10.065)

Fiona Dwyer (16:15.487)
Very much so. You have to double check it against the source and you know it’s good to sort of get you know three sources saying the same thing and then you know that you know for sure that it’s happened or if there’s like a statistic saying 78% of people do such and such and you know where’s that actually come from and you have to go back to the actual study so that you can actually refer to the study itself.

Andy & Chris (16:22.239)

Andy & Chris (16:33.102)
Hmm. Yeah. There’s only 10 people. Yeah. So, so between us on this podcast, who was your best interview?

Fiona Dwyer (16:43.423)
Between you two?

Andy & Chris (16:44.478)
Yeah, no, not us on the your best interview ever. Yeah, choose, make a decision. That that make it really awkward next 30 minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m sitting there like, yeah, sod off. Yeah, no. So what’s your best interview?

Andy & Chris (17:05.346)
Favorite, yeah, go. I’ll do you a favorite.

Fiona Dwyer (17:06.564)
My favourite interview was actually I think with John Hurt. I’ve interviewed lots of people but when I think about it, just because he was so lovely, do you know John Hurt? So he did amazing stuff through his career. Because I’d researched it, I’d gone back to some of his early stuff. Now that I’m talking to you I can’t remember the name of the film.

Andy & Chris (17:10.922)

Andy & Chris (17:17.428)

Andy & Chris (17:28.362)
He was Elephant Man, wasn’t he? Yes.

Fiona Dwyer (17:30.203)
No, he did one before that and he portrayed a gay man in it and he was, and it was, and I went back to that and I was asking what that was sort of like in those times and but all the way up to the present day at that time when he played Mr. Ollivander in Harry Potter and he only took that role because his grandchildren said you’ve got to be in Harry Potter. So yeah, so I sort of went and

Andy & Chris (17:41.101)

Andy & Chris (17:47.711)

Andy & Chris (17:52.76)
That was really sweet. Sweet.

Fiona Dwyer (17:57.331)
It was really good because I think he enjoyed looking at the past as well as, you know, looking at the… And just it was kind of amusing to him to, I think, that he’d gone into Harry Potter as Mr. Ollivander because his grandchildren wouldn’t have spoken to him again if he hadn’t played the role. Yeah. But again, such a nice man. I think you find the real greats are really lovely. Yes.

Andy & Chris (18:01.012)

Andy & Chris (18:09.442)
John Hurt was alien, wasn’t he? Yeah. Oh, he’s an amazing actor. Absolutely. He’s done so much stuff. I, yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes, which is nice to hear. Ask some a little bit grumpy, you don’t have to mention any names.

Fiona Dwyer (18:29.379)
Some people can be grumpy, but often it’s, I don’t know, sometimes it’s people on the way up and they sometimes think, I think perhaps they… Yes. But you know, one or two, but in general people are very nice and very happy to be interviewed because it’s good for them at the end of the day.

Andy & Chris (18:36.168)
Right. Ah, really, it’s always ideas above their station fawns about the choice of wood.

Andy & Chris (18:44.786)
Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it’s just good PMR, isn’t it? We’ve established that to be a good journalist, you need to be good at research. You also need to be tenacious to make sure that you get your interviews. Are there any other kind of general guiding principles that you learn through your journalism career that are just good life lessons for people that kind of has set you up well for your future career because of the things you learn as a result of your work? Yeah.

Fiona Dwyer (18:56.095)

Andy & Chris (19:11.446)
Don’t drink too much coffee. Yes.

Fiona Dwyer (19:11.983)
Um, yeah, make a good cup of tea. I’m good at making tea though, because I used to make a lot of tea in my house. A lot of people. Um, yes. But I think you have to be tenacious, you have to be, also you have to be a decent person, I think. Um, I’ve always been polite, I’ve always been nice to people. Because I always think that if you’re…

Andy & Chris (19:20.801)
I was going to say, we have so many siblings, yeah.

Andy & Chris (19:30.407)

Fiona Dwyer (19:40.635)
nice to people at all times. Everybody’s a human being and everyone deserves respect. I’ve always been nice to people, so even when I was being tenacious and followed up, I would do it in a polite way. Even on big stories, very difficult stories, trying to speak to people when family members had died in tragic circumstances, for instance, there’s just a way of doing that and an empathy that you have towards them.

Andy & Chris (19:43.394)
Hmm. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (19:55.686)

Andy & Chris (20:05.809)

Fiona Dwyer (20:09.895)
so that you let them, it’s all about asking the question and letting people speak, not interrupting them and allowing them to tell their story. And if they pause, letting them pause. If they’re obviously needing a prompt, then you carry on, but allowing them to tell their story without you interrupting.

Andy & Chris (20:15.767)

Andy & Chris (20:25.901)

Andy & Chris (20:31.039)

I think that’s a really good point for dentists to hear as well. Because I think quite often, and this happens a lot in the world over, people kind of jump in with what they think is a solution a little bit early. And I think particularly with patients, when they’re talking about their situation and perhaps what bothers them or issues they’ve had in the past or a future event that might be coming up that might be influencing why they’re wanting treatment, like a wedding or a big birthday or something like that. And I think you’re right.

people to tell their whole story. And quite often the real gold comes quite late on when they’re talking because the things come out that aren’t obvious and if you just stay quiet it creates a space for them to talk.

Fiona Dwyer (21:15.091)
Yeah and I think also before you even start an interview, before you even press record, just allowing them to relax, so just having a chat with them, telling them what’s going to be happening so they’re not, you know, because they’ll be worried about it, and just, you know, having a cup of tea, having a, you know, just having it, if you’ve got the time to do that then that’s what you’ve got to do, but you do learn to do that quite quickly.

Andy & Chris (21:24.175)

Andy & Chris (21:28.802)
freaking out. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (21:36.087)

Andy & Chris (21:41.69)
Were there some stories that you found really hard in the fact of, because you’ve also got to put, I would imagine, in some very emotional stories, you’ve sort of almost got to put a mask on to… Was there some stories that you just thought, well, actually, these are really awful stories and it’s really hard work for you, rather than just asking questions to not sort of get caught up in the emotion really?

Fiona Dwyer (22:04.891)
Yeah, I mean certainly usually when it involved tragic death. So stories I remember interviewing and it was set up, they had agreed to do the story because some people ask why on earth are you interviewing them, how awful for the family. But I remember interviewing a father and he had two little girls and they’d been in an accident and his wife, the mother of the girls and his two little boys had died. So their family had been split.

Andy & Chris (22:08.421)

Fiona Dwyer (22:34.351)
in two and so that was a very difficult interview and I don’t know how they did it, let alone how he did it, let alone, but he wanted to get the message out, you know, and he wanted to talk about them and sometimes people find it quite comforting to talk about it. Cathartic. Yeah, very much so. Also I remember one I found quite difficult, it was after I’d had my first child, I’ve got two children.

Andy & Chris (22:38.798)
Hmm… Yeah?

Andy & Chris (22:49.138)
Right, so sort of cathartic almost, yeah.

Fiona Dwyer (23:03.747)
I’ve had myself. I’ve also got a stepdaughter who’s older but my first child was, I’d gone back to work after six months and my very first day, he was only six months old so he’d literally just gone into nursery and my first job, first day back was, I had to go to Hall Crown Court to cover a trial about a baby who had been stabbed by their older brother.

Andy & Chris (23:33.038)

Fiona Dwyer (23:33.067)
sort of who was like a sort of 11-ish, something like that. And all the pictures were, you saw all the pictures that were being shown to the jury and you sort of, and every time they were talking about it, I was thinking, because this baby was six months old, the baby survived, you know, so the baby was alive. Thankfully, I don’t know how, but all I could think of every time I was thinking, oh gosh, that’s my son, do you know what I mean? That’s all I was thinking. And it was…

Andy & Chris (23:46.319)
Oh, wow.

Andy & Chris (23:57.953)
Oh wow. Yeah, that emotional connection.

Fiona Dwyer (24:00.391)
Yeah, and it was the first day back and I had to do this package all about it. It was the first day of the trial and then I was doing a live at lunchtime, live into the, it was the lead at tea time and I was doing live outside court and it was kind of like welcome, welcome back Fiona. Return as you leave, welcome back. I was like okay then, no. Yeah, so yeah, I think they were, things like that were the most difficult I found.

Andy & Chris (24:15.478)
Welcome back. Ha ha ha. Yeah. No soft landing for you. Baptism of fire. Ha ha ha.

Andy & Chris (24:28.158)
And now you provide PR services to your clients, which is effectively free marketing. That’s how I see PR. When talking about PR, is there a certain personality type or client that it works better for? Is it, because I guess you’re talking about kind of, you know, helping the clients get better known. Is that not easy for some of your clients?

Fiona Dwyer (24:32.548)
I do!

Fiona Dwyer (24:35.908)
Yeah, for sure.

Fiona Dwyer (24:52.251)
It’s not, and also for several reasons I think. Sometimes people just don’t feel uncomfortable putting themselves out there. They worry what people will say, they worry people will sort of think they’re a bit uppity, you know, who do they think they are trying to get themselves all this press in the media. Some people don’t know how to work out what a story is to identify a story. What would be interesting to a journalist? A lot of people, when I start…

Andy & Chris (24:59.359)

Andy & Chris (25:05.055)


Andy & Chris (25:15.052)

Fiona Dwyer (25:20.795)
when I start talking to clients right at the very beginning, they start telling me things and I’m saying, oh, that would make a really good story. And then really I think, you know, I’m like, yeah, that would be a story and that would be a story. And things that they say, they think that they would like me to do as a story, they’re not stories at all that would be interesting from a news point of view. So I just have to say to them, no, that’s not interesting. Or if we add,

Andy & Chris (25:34.978)

Andy & Chris (25:47.054)
That’s a real interesting point, isn’t it?

Fiona Dwyer (25:50.159)
But if we turn it around this way, or if we add statistics to it, or if we add a case study to it, then we can make it into a story. So it’s just knowing how to do that.

Andy & Chris (26:00.027)
Hmm. When you say people come to you and they think they’ve got a story, effectively they’re just trying to promote their product or service. And it’s kind of like an advert. They’re not really adding any value to the reader or the listener. Right.

Fiona Dwyer (26:11.487)
exactly that. They don’t think about who they’re actually targeting so it’s really important to know who you’re targeting, so who your audience is. And who your audience is but also if you want to attract a particular journalist or a particular publication or radio programme or broadcast, TV news, then you have to know the types of story that they do and that they write and you have to understand who their readers, listeners, viewers are because if it doesn’t speak to them then they’re not going to be interesting.

Andy & Chris (26:15.427)

Andy & Chris (26:32.98)

Andy & Chris (26:37.45)

Fiona Dwyer (26:41.007)
interested because they’re in the business of selling newspapers or getting more viewers or more listeners.

Andy & Chris (26:41.12)

Andy & Chris (26:46.529)

So that’s a really interesting one, isn’t it? Because then I hadn’t realized that almost, it’s a bit like, so we have a finance company. I sort of there is a sort of a bleak link here. But they know which banks will lend for certain things and have a preference for things and a dislike for things. And that is that what you’re sort of saying, that there’ll be some publications and the art is actually knowing who to go to. Because this for them is something they’d be interested in. Whereas if you took it to someone else, they’d go, I’m not interested in that at all.

Fiona Dwyer (27:17.567)
Yeah, no very much so. So you need to target the right people. So for dentists, for instance, they would be talking, looking at, you know, health reporters, or they might be, it might be looking at social affairs reporters if it was talking about, you know, the state of oral health or, you know, it depends on what the story is. It depends on what the story is as to which journalist you would approach at any given place.

Andy & Chris (27:18.893)

Andy & Chris (27:30.72)

Andy & Chris (27:35.23)

Andy & Chris (27:38.335)

Andy & Chris (27:41.508)

And also, I guess it depends whether you’re generating the PR, as in providing the content and the material into media, or you’re responding. Because many, many years ago, I was fortunate to do some media training with a guy from Channel 4 back in the mid-late 90s. And he always said that if somebody picks up the phone or wants to talk to you, you have to take the call. Because if you say no, they’ll go to somebody else. And in dentistry, there’s a couple of guys who do this really well. So Kunal Patel, who owns a group, Loved Teeth, and Nilesh Parmar.

They’re both great and recently there was an acid attack in London and Kunal got himself all over the radio Because he basically just gave some advice on if what to do if there’s an acid attack or an alkaline attack And it’s playing the difference But it’s because he was available and he was able to move so quickly that he got all the coverage And so does it kind of split out does it still split out into two ways of responding to the media? But also pushing content their way as well

Fiona Dwyer (28:39.767)
It has to be both, but definitely if somebody calls you be available because they will go elsewhere but they won’t necessarily come back to you again. So you want them, you want to be the go-to person, so you want them to come back to you because you’ve got, you’re media friendly and that you’ve got interesting stuff to say and that you’re knowledgeable and that you’re an expert in your particular area.

Andy & Chris (28:44.418)

Andy & Chris (28:54.881)

Andy & Chris (28:59.64)
Hmm. So do you have a little black book? Yeah, of your little contacts that go, right, so this is someone I know. I say it must be invaluable.

Fiona Dwyer (29:03.211)
Do I have a black book? Have a contacts book? Yeah, contacts books are gold dust for journalists. Yes, so you add to it all the time. So yes, so you have a, although now it seems it’s all transferred into your contacts on your phone. But yes, we, yeah. But yeah, contacts books were absolute gold dust because they were all the people that you have ever interviewed or you might want to interview.

Andy & Chris (29:14.91)

Andy & Chris (29:22.236)
Have a little black phone.

Andy & Chris (29:31.963)
Mm-hmm. Oh, wow So if you kept a catalog then of everything you’ve done since you started

Fiona Dwyer (29:32.157)
and so you could go back to them again.

Fiona Dwyer (29:38.471)
If you, in your contacts book, if you’ve written, if you’ve spoken to somebody, then if it was from a particular organization, they would be under, in your contacts book, under a particular sector. So if another environmental story came up, for instance, or another health story came up, you would see who have I spoken to before, who could give a broad, you know, a broad look at it, you know, sort of an expert viewpoint on this. So, yeah, so that’s why you would go back.

Andy & Chris (29:52.674)
you’d know where to go.

Well, right. Yeah. Hmm. That keeping data. Yeah. It’s another sort of business thing, isn’t it? The fact of keeping that data because you never know when it’s going to be useful. When you want to go back to it. You were saying, Fiona, about. Um.

Fiona Dwyer (30:10.451)
Yeah, very much so.

Andy & Chris (30:13.698)
people coming up with ideas that aren’t newsworthy. Have you got some tips for things that are newsworthy? Is it people out there saying, well, I’m not entirely sure what I would have as a dental practice that might be newsworthy. What are the sort of things that the media might pick up? Or some really bad ideas. Yeah.

Fiona Dwyer (30:17.812)

Fiona Dwyer (30:34.215)
Well, a really bad idea would be to say I’ve got 10% off or 20% off on something because that’s clearly an advert. And so they’re not going to be interested in anything that is remotely an advert. If you are trying to push something, then you have to try and find the news angle so that is almost a secondary thing, so that it’s just happening. But certainly, if you’re looking at what stories, and not every story works for every media. So

Andy & Chris (30:41.714)

Fiona Dwyer (31:02.127)
If you are looking at, you can look at if you’re the first or the best in something, if you’ve won an award, if you have what’s happening in your practice at the moment, have you got a new service? But when you’re looking at a new story, how is that service going to improve the lives of your patients? So how is that going to happen? What is the latest, if there are some latest guidelines or latest statistics out, then

how is that, you use that and sort of comment on it, make a comment on it. So that would be a way of writing, you’d write a press release and then you would send that to your local media. If you wanted to, if you’ve got, if your local radio station has a talk-in or a phone-in show, then you could offer yourself as an expert in talking about, you know, how people should, you know, the right ways of cleaning your teeth, whether you should use dental floss, you know,

Andy & Chris (31:34.254)

Andy & Chris (31:41.845)

Andy & Chris (31:52.024)

Fiona Dwyer (32:00.807)
NHS versus private, you know, which is better, is one better, you know, the different ways that you can get, you know, if there’s a dentist plan or something. You can talk about things like that for a phone in and get people to say, I’ve got this problem with my tooth and I don’t know what to do with it and I can’t get an NHS appointment. So you can, there are different, different things that you can do and every practice will be different. And I think…

Andy & Chris (32:09.162)

Andy & Chris (32:18.416)

Andy & Chris (32:21.762)
Lots of options.

Fiona Dwyer (32:27.635)
sort of like the new CQC guidelines, for instance, for dental practices, well, for all health, the health industry, the health sector, they’re very patient-centric now. And so they really need to look at all their communications right across the board. So they need to look at how they are dealing with, you know, how they are talking to their patients. Is it by email? Is it by newsletter? Is it on social media? But…

Andy & Chris (32:39.554)

Fiona Dwyer (32:53.543)
If you can get yourself in the media, that is talking to your whole community. It’s how you’re also educating your community, the CQC want to see. So by getting yourself, finding a story that you can get in the media, and you’re the expert, you are the dentist that is putting that forward, you’re going to get that organic footfall.

Andy & Chris (33:02.501)

Andy & Chris (33:14.066)
Yeah, I know practices that do very well in terms of generation of new patients. And like say if you if you’re seen in that capacity and you’ve got good Google reviews and it’s meeting the requirements of CQC, suddenly you’re just elevating yourself to a certain level. You’re supposed to be building bricks aren’t you, to your authority. Yeah exactly.

Fiona Dwyer (33:33.28)
But also look at sort of key dates and national months and national weeks like November for instances, oral cancer awareness month and sort of from mid May to mid June is national smile month. So look at what case studies that you can get because journalists love case studies so if they can talk to the actual person, so if you’ve got somebody who has had

Andy & Chris (33:53.584)

Fiona Dwyer (33:59.687)
oral cancer or they’ve had a relative who has died because of oral cancer, then put that forward and invite the cameras in and say this is what we’re doing, we’re putting on oral cancer screening. Get yourself, and so that they can come in, they can talk to you in your dental practice, but at the same time they can talk to someone who has had oral cancer or they have had a relative who has died so that they can appeal to people to get screened.

Andy & Chris (34:09.428)

Andy & Chris (34:12.585)

Andy & Chris (34:20.386)

Andy & Chris (34:27.01)
Sure. Yeah. So your segue into dentistry was through Nikki Rowland with the magic dentists campaign Which we support through FTA media with a media partner for that project What what was it about that initiative that drew you in other than Nikki being utterly relentless and not accepting those an answer But but aside from that on your doorstep

Fiona Dwyer (34:32.469)

Fiona Dwyer (34:37.419)
Fabulous, yes.

Fiona Dwyer (34:48.139)
Well, I’ve known Nicky for years actually because when I was doing my… Well, I met her actually when I first set up my business. Sorry, just backtracking and then I’ll get there. After I had my children I left at ITV and I set up my PR business. And then they asked me back so I was being a sort of planning producer for about a year, freelance, and I was still running my business the other couple of days of the week.

Andy & Chris (35:01.079)

Fiona Dwyer (35:16.999)
And then it was, but it was too much because I was commuting to Leeds. I live over in East Yorkshire. And then they asked me back again to be the reporter over here again in sort of like whole East Yorkshire area. And so I came back two days a week and then the other three days I would do my business. So while I was doing all of that, I first met Nikki at a networking for my business, a networking event at my business, and we just hit it off.

When I was at Calendar, I knew that she was when she was a practice manager. And so if I needed a dentist, I would ring Nikki to go there. So I’d interviewed Nikki previously and filmed at her dental practice. So then we became friends. So, and we actually did a piece for a dentist magazine for a year. I was giving her advice.

Andy & Chris (35:54.946)
Ah, right. Right. She was in your little black book. Ha ha.

Fiona Dwyer (36:15.039)
that she needed to follow from a PR point of view and she would implement it in her practice so we would do like a monthly column. So then when she set up the Magic Dentist campaign we were just sort of chatting and she just said would you help and I said yes of course. So that’s just literally it wasn’t difficult at all because I thought it was such an amazing campaign and who doesn’t want to see children have better oral health. Because what shocked me though were the statistics.

Andy & Chris (36:19.886)

Andy & Chris (36:36.23)
Mm. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (36:39.875)

Fiona Dwyer (36:44.319)
the number one reason for children to actually have a general anaesthetic is because of teeth extractions. And that just shocked me, yes. And that shocked me and I’m a journalist and I thought why didn’t I already know this? So yeah, it’s appalling.

Andy & Chris (36:50.37)
Yeah. It’s scary, isn’t it? Mmm, yeah.

Andy & Chris (36:58.626)
It’s a terrible stat, absolutely terrible stat. Could you just explain what the magic dentist is and what he’s doing in terms of kind of helping with that education?

Fiona Dwyer (37:06.707)
Okay, yeah, so the Magic Dentist campaign, as you say, is set up by Nikki. It started because she wrote an amazing children’s book, and her daughter Izzy illustrated it, all about the Magic Dentist. And it’s in rhyme, so it’s very like Dr. Zeus. So if you’ve read Dr. Zeus, you will know exactly what I mean. And she uses all the different… It goes through children going to the dentist, and the Magic Dentist, there’s like a little… The tooth, if you turn it up, it’s like the bunny, and there’s a tooth fairy.

Andy & Chris (37:23.17)
Hmm. Yeah.

Fiona Dwyer (37:35.227)
And the idea is to show children, yes, the importance of cleaning your teeth and how to clean your teeth because there are brushing instructions as well, but also just that it’s not scary. Don’t be scared of going to the dentist and this is really important. And they sort of go on adventures. So it’s a really amazing book. So that then transferred into the campaign. And so Nikki goes into school. She has an actual magician who is a dentist.

Andy & Chris (37:50.062)
Hmm. Yep.

Fiona Dwyer (38:04.919)
dentist who is a member of the Magic Circle is the magic dentist and so they go into schools with a dental practice and they have these amazing workshops with primary school children teaching them how and one of the dental nurses the tooth fairy and they go into schools and they teach them all about oral health they just have and they just do magic tricks and everything but they also go into dental practices who put on fun days to do the same kind of event.

And it’s that she’s trying to spread the word about and she’s spreading that, you know, getting more schools and more dental practices involved and it’s getting the word out. It’s an amazing campaign and we’ve had some really great PR for it. And so she’s been on the local news up here, but she’s also been on BBC Breakfast News because we had, when I’m talking about putting a story together, we actually got them to come into film at a school

Andy & Chris (38:39.67)
Hmm. It’s a great campaign. It really is. Hmm.

Andy & Chris (38:47.359)

Andy & Chris (38:51.627)

Andy & Chris (38:54.723)

Andy & Chris (39:02.56)

Fiona Dwyer (39:03.111)
speak to the children, speak to the teachers, speak to the dentist, speak to Nicky and have the pictures there to actually tell the story and so and who doesn’t have you know lots of children you know doing something exciting. So that’s been amazing really she’s been on lots of radio stations so she’s handsome and amazing and we just come to you know chipping away gradually.

Andy & Chris (39:14.11)
Yeah. We can put the link in can’t we, in the notes? Yeah.

Andy & Chris (39:25.45)
Yeah, yeah Chris was saying we will add the link to the website in the episode notes so that people can click and find out a bit more about it. In case our listeners want to get involved. Yeah, exactly. If they will…

Fiona Dwyer (39:31.831)
Please do, it’s fantastic.

Fiona Dwyer (39:36.911)
If anybody does, that would be amazing, get in touch with Nikki because if you have a local school that you want to go into, then you can actually use it for your own press. Get yourself in the media that way.

Andy & Chris (39:48.032)
Hmm. I was just thinking, we’re talking about PR today and people are always struggling to find interesting things to talk about in their local community. If you hosted an event in your practice with the Magic Dentists, that’s a great way of making your way into the local news.

Fiona Dwyer (39:58.963)
It is and we have helped and we’ve actually done that so I’ve written, I’ve done press releases and got people on their local radio depending on where it happened to be, whether it was in London, whether it was in Scotland, where you know so it’s, so it is doable, completely doable and people are interested because use the statistics that I was saying, get the statistics and the upstate statistics about children’s oral health and that makes it into a story because you’re talking about your local community.

Andy & Chris (40:13.508)

Andy & Chris (40:18.52)

Andy & Chris (40:22.207)

Andy & Chris (40:26.104)
Yeah, yeah, that’s pretty

Fiona Dwyer (40:26.683)
and how you are helping them. So that’s really… Oh, and the other thing, she’s putting educational packs together so that she can actually almost do the magic dentist workshop in a box so that she’ll be able to send it so a school can put it on themselves and invite a dentist in, or the dentist, the dentist, the dental practice themselves can actually go in with it so that all the information is there and the magician will go into.

Andy & Chris (40:37.858)

Andy & Chris (40:49.45)
Wow. Brilliant. It’s good. Fiona, if you could just take one thing from your career and your business life, what’s the one thing you think is the most important part in terms of being in business?

Fiona Dwyer (41:02.191)
Um, networking probably. Well, being a decent person for a start so people can trust you, that’s really important. But also, talking to people, networking is very important because if people don’t know that you’re there…

Andy & Chris (41:06.275)

Yeah. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Be nice.

Andy & Chris (41:17.83)

Fiona Dwyer (41:22.503)
then no one’s going. It’s that support network isn’t it? It’s that support network of other businesses and when you set up in business yourself as I did, I was, I’m a journalist, I didn’t know anything about setting up a business and running a business is completely different. So I’m great at what I do, so I say so myself, but I’m really good at what I do, but running a business is a completely different…

Andy & Chris (41:26.38)

Andy & Chris (41:34.804)

Andy & Chris (41:39.79)
Mm. Heh.

Andy & Chris (41:47.198)
Yeah. Definitely.

Fiona Dwyer (41:48.515)
you know, you need a different toolkit completely. So having, going, networking with people and saying, this is what I’m doing at the moment, or I’ve come up against this problem, you can, you know, people are quite happy to tell you, well, try this, or try that, or use this.

Andy & Chris (41:53.785)

Andy & Chris (42:00.661)

I think it’s a really good point. We did a previous episode with Dr Tilly Houston and she was telling us how, so she’s quite actively involved in the BACD, which is a dental group, and she said that she’s got three jobs as a result of being involved in that organisation and she said to that what you just said, that it’s her network which has provided her with those opportunities and they’ve always provided with friends and people have recommended courses to her. So I agree, I think networking is really important.

Fiona Dwyer (42:32.144)
And I think it’s networking in person in your local community but also online now because we’ve got, you know, I do quite a bit on LinkedIn. But it’s really important to do that. And then you join communities on LinkedIn or just communities on Facebook that you, if you join like a master, I’m in a LinkedIn mastermind so I have a whole, you know, there are I don’t know thousands probably of businesses who are in this mastermind with me and we

Andy & Chris (42:38.677)


Fiona Dwyer (43:00.175)
share information and I think if you’ve got an idea for something you can put it in there and you can sort of work out whether or not it’s going to work or not. So I think that sort of network, that extended network then of people you might not have met but you know them and you can trust them because they’re online and they’re in the same group as you are.

Andy & Chris (43:08.256)


Andy & Chris (43:14.966)
You’re part of it. Yeah. Fiona, we’ve got to the time where we have two questions that we need to ask you. Given your background and the things you’ve done, the people you’ve met, I’m gonna be fascinated to hear what the answers to these questions are. So our first question is, you can be a fly on the wall in a situation. Where are you and who’s there? What’s going on?

Fiona Dwyer (43:38.679)
do you know, this has really flummoxed me because I would like to be a fly on the wall in so many different situations. So I’ve written the lowdown. I’d like to, some of them sort of historical really, probably, and I’d be really interested in Hitler’s last moments. What actually happened? Did he actually kill himself or did he somehow manage to escape? Because there’s so much controversy over that.

Andy & Chris (43:45.826)
Well, perhaps you can have a couple. We’ll let you have a couple. How about that?

Andy & Chris (44:01.482)
Hmm, okay

Fiona Dwyer (44:08.391)
I’d also like to be a fly on the wall to find out how Marilyn Monroe actually died. I think that would be absolutely… Yeah, I really love conspiracy theories because I like to try and get to the bottom of things. But, yes, well, I would have done, but then that would be, you know, I mean, you know, you would sort of, you know, fly on the wall in the Oval Office. It depends on which president. I’m not quite sure really.

Andy & Chris (44:16.441)
Oh, yeah. Conspiracy theorists.

Andy & Chris (44:23.969)
Nice link. Are you going to do JFK? Ha ha ha.

Andy & Chris (44:35.062)
Hoover, isn’t it? Hoover, that’s supposed to have shot him or something, aren’t they?

Fiona Dwyer (44:38.111)
But I was saying that we’re Irish Catholics, so I’d quite like to go right back and go to the Last Supper. And Sieve is actually, as portrayed in Da Vinci’s painting, you know, is what actually happened and things like that. But I’d also, well, two more things, sorry. I told you I had a long list.

Andy & Chris (44:44.799)

Andy & Chris (44:49.907)

Andy & Chris (44:57.655)
No, we’ve never had anybody come up with five things before this. I’ll tell you what, the Last Supper just made me think of Monty Python and that sketch with the Last Supper. But anyway, that’s moving on. That is the funniest sketch ever.

Fiona Dwyer (45:05.351)
Oh, well, Life of Brian, I mean, that’s just amazing, isn’t it? That is so funny. But I’d like to go into NASA’s control room when man walked on the moon because that was actually in the year I was born as well. I was two months old at that time. Oh, well. Have you ever watched a film?

Andy & Chris (45:14.126)
Okay. Oh. And now did they? Did they land on the moon? Ha ha. We’ve all seen the film with Elliot Gould. Capricorn one.

Fiona Dwyer (45:24.343)
Have you ever watched a film called Wag the Dog? That is just really, if you haven’t, it’s really good. Yeah, it’s all about that sort of thing. But finally, and this is more modern day, I’d quite like to know what King Charles and Prince William really think of what’s going on with Harry and Meghan. And conversely, I’d like to be on the fly in the wall in Harry and Meghan’s house to find out what the heck they’re actually doing. Yes, yes.

Andy & Chris (45:27.402)
Yes. Right. Yes.

Andy & Chris (45:48.242)
Yeah. Flip. Yeah. Yeah, that’d be a very interesting one. Very interesting one. Wow, well, so- Super inquisitive. Maybe that’s the journalistic mind there. I think it is. You see that? Ha ha ha. Yeah. Ha ha ha. I’ve got to stop somewhere. So, I-

Fiona Dwyer (45:56.835)
Yeah, honestly there are so many more but I just thought oh this is just too difficult I don’t know I’ll just stop somewhere

Andy & Chris (46:04.47)
So our follow-up question is if you could meet somebody, and given that we were so generous last time, you’re gonna have to say just one person for this. So you got the opportunity, you can sit down, you can have a cup of coffee, tea, beer, wine, whatever you want. Who would you meet?

Fiona Dwyer (46:12.431)
I will be one person, yes!

Fiona Dwyer (46:21.039)
Well, I would love to meet the Pope, but I would say the Queen. You know, obviously I will never be able to do that now. I’ve always wanted to have tea with the Queen, but just one tea would not be enough. Because she’s got, she has met so many interesting people. I’d like to find out about her and what she really thinks of people, but also all the people that she’s met. All the presidents, all the dignitaries, everyone that she’s met. And I think she would have been, I think I’d have needed a fortnight with her, really.

Andy & Chris (46:24.864)


Andy & Chris (46:35.312)

Andy & Chris (46:42.416)

Andy & Chris (46:49.194)

Fiona Dwyer (46:49.915)
get all the information but I think she would have just been and I think she’d have been loads of fun.

Andy & Chris (46:54.846)
Yeah, I think she would have been. I think she would have been. I think she did.

Fiona Dwyer (46:56.875)
So that’s who I would love to have met. Yeah, yeah.

Andy & Chris (46:58.418)
An incredible job, an incredible job. And not an easy one because, you know, lots of people have watched the program, The Crown, and I get that that’s dramatization, but it brought it home to me just how they are a family in the traditional sense and they also have a job as the royal family, but they’re the same people. It’s not easy to kind of manage that, going back to your point about, you know, Charles, William and Harry. Yeah, they are, you know, it’s father and sons and siblings. But they’re in the media. Yeah. You know, it goes into hospital. Boom.

Fiona Dwyer (47:17.052)

Andy & Chris (47:29.572)
They also have another role as well. So it’s not straightforward. But I agree, I think the Queen would have been a hoot. I think she would have been great fun. I reckon she’d have been quite naughty. I don’t mean naughty, but I mean, you know, just like a bit. Cheeky. Cheeky, yeah.

Fiona Dwyer (47:43.135)
I think it would have been hilarious. I mean when you think about you know she was always having tea with Paddington and stuff like that, you know, like Jubilee and I loved when she like jumped out you know for the Olympics, was it Olympics? And then she jumped out of the plane you know with James Bond you know all of that I think it would have been amazing.

Andy & Chris (47:48.613)
Yes. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Brilliant. Shona, it’s been a joy. It’s been an absolute joy. It’s been brilliant. I think your history in terms of the work you’ve done is great. I think getting involved with Nicky and the Magic Dentist campaign is brilliant. Yeah, brilliant. And we’ll definitely put those links in the in the episode. But no, we appreciate your time today. It’s been wonderful talking. It’s been fascinating. Different, different side of stuff. No, not at all. Not at all. Look after yourself. Speak to you soon. Bye, Al. Cheers. Bye.

Fiona Dwyer (48:13.535)
Thank you so much for inviting me.

Fiona Dwyer (48:18.383)
Yes you do, bye bye.


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