Dentology Podcast with Hussein Shaffie

Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Hussein Shaffie

Episode Release Date: Monday 3 July 2023

Andy & Chris:
So welcome, we are here again recording another podcast episode. We are indeed, been looking forward to this one. Absolutely. Absolutely, me too, me too. So today, a very special guest. We have the founder and principal dentist of the Sanford Implant and Cosmetic Centre and the Bexley Heath Central Practice. He’s completed a diploma in implantology at the Royal College of Surgeons back in 2011, which is remarkable for such a young looking guy. He must have been 12. Exactly, exactly. And he’s also a serious foodie. with the Hungry Dentist YouTube channel. So welcome Hussain Shafi, how are you? Hello.

Hussein Shaffie:
I’m very good. Thank you very much. Good morning to you both and it’s real pleasure to invite me and I’m thrilled actually to be here and have a chat with you.

Andy & Chris:
It’s lovely to have you with us. Lovely to have you with us. And like I say, we’ll come onto your YouTube channel later, but I love the content that you put out. It really is. It’s funny. It’s informative and it gives a real sense of that heritage of your homeland as well. So it’s good. It’s good. But we’ll get to that. So to start off with, you qualified as a dentist in Sweden and moved to the UK in 1998. But let’s kind of roll back before that. Before we get to your dental career, can you take us back to your… childhood, just gives an insight as to understanding why you are the successful man you are today. So how did it start out for the young Hussein?

Hussein Shaffie:
Obviously I was born in Iran and raised in a family, kind of a middle class family. My dad used to be quite strict with bringing us up and then we have, I have a sister and two brothers and I was the oldest one and unfortunately as I remember from childhood I have a rassa problem with my teeth and my dad and my mom. used to take dentists on a weekly basis with the abscesses,

Andy & Chris:
Oh wow.

Hussein Shaffie:
toothache or so. And then to be honest with you, since I was like 7 or 8 that I understood, I wanted to kind of go to a medicine field or dentistry. That kind of, it was my passion at that time. So I ended up becoming a dentist anyway. So my dad was quite strict and my dad owned a huge chicken farm. and also a few shops and he was working in a kind of agricultural environment and importing all the agricultural stuff and machinery and veterinary stuff or so. So from the childhood and he used to obviously take me to the chicken farm wanted me to help him the same obviously the same time I used to study hard because obviously he expected me to do very well.

Andy & Chris:
Mm.

Hussein Shaffie:
So I grew up in a chicken farm and obviously asked me to do things for him or helping on almost every single day. And funny enough that he used to obviously pay me every time, giving me a task. If you do this, you get that much money. So

Andy & Chris:
What?

Hussein Shaffie:
from the age, eight, nine years old, I kind of, I was encouraged to

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
do kind of help because obviously I got money. My friends.

Andy & Chris:
Encouraged with money, that’s a good encourager.

Hussein Shaffie:
I’m not sure if I’m doing the same thing these days, in the shelter for sure not, but this is the way he did and the same time he was a strict. And I think now I’m thinking back, what he did made me the way I am.

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
So I can’t blame him or so. And also he did kind of the knowledge, the information, everything that he had. So

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
it was the only way. being strict and push your children to become successful. There was no. Yeah.

Andy & Chris:
It’s a life skill, isn’t it? You know, that sort of, it’s not just, uh, the sort of like being paid for something, but it’s actually a life skill that sort of says, actually, if you do something, then you get a reward when that’s money or else, but you actually, well. I believe and I think my generation and probably our generations believe that’s what you have to do. You have to do something But but also as a great I mean a great father but also a great mentor was really instilling in you the importance of working hard and You know what that what that can bring because it sounds like your father was a was a pretty successful guy with that list Of things that you rattled off that he was involved in did he do?

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah, and then it’s a funny

Andy & Chris:
Did

Hussein Shaffie:
story.

Andy & Chris:
you do the same for your brothers and sisters the same?

Hussein Shaffie:
I’m not to be honest with you, I encouraged him, but not I wouldn’t be at that strict because obviously you can’t be this is their choices. I

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
let them to choose I lead them. I tell them for example, my oldest daughter. She is a very successful orthodontist And I kind of encouraged her. I showed her around took her with me with all domiciliary visit that I used to have when I came to England, seeing elderly people, the way I

Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
worked. And then at the end I left it to her to choose. And then obviously she chose dentistry, and then she went to become an orthodontist, and she is very, very successful. And I’m

Andy & Chris:
Let’s go.

Hussein Shaffie:
very pleased and… kind of proud, she’s working alongside me with her husband, he is a dentist as well. So it’s a great kind of, you see, that worked basically, but

Andy & Chris:
Mm.

Hussein Shaffie:
if you’re asking they say you’re forcing me, but I’m not sure about that.

Andy & Chris:
And what about your brothers and sisters? What did they do? Did they, have they gone on to sort of like do the same thing as in they got that work ethic from your dad. So have they sort of become successful in what they do?

Hussein Shaffie:
I mean, because unfortunately my dad died age 48.

Andy & Chris:
Oh wow, cool. He had a lot of success young then.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah, that’s correct. And I was, that time I was in Argentina because as a young child I wanted to go obviously travel and then from, you know, I wanted to go to America or so. And then unfortunately when he died I had to go back and looking after family because I was the oldest one. So yeah, my sister, she is a engineer in Sweden and she’s married, has got two children and my youngest brother, he’s a dentist, working with me and also his wife, she’s an endodontist, so she’s working with us as well. Yeah.

Andy & Chris:
Flipping heck. Wow, lots of dentists in the family.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah, including obviously my wife as well. So she’s an implant

Andy & Chris:
Oh

Hussein Shaffie:
surgeon.

Andy & Chris:
wow. Absolutely, which is good. Imagine the Christmas conversation. Family

Hussein Shaffie:
Oh yeah.

Andy & Chris:
get together.

Hussein Shaffie:
It’s easy.

Andy & Chris:
Or do you ban dentistry? Is that when you all meet, do you like, no, we’re not going to talk about dentistry because

Hussein Shaffie:
Yes,

Andy & Chris:
we all do dentistry.

Hussein Shaffie:
absolutely, because obviously everybody complaining, especially my younger daughter and then also my second daughter, she’s a lawyer.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yes, she always says, if you want to talk about dentistry, I’m not going to.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah. But it’s surprising how many there are because I know Charlie Attyayani quite well and Charlie’s situation is similar. You know, he’s got his brother Martin, Martin’s wife Vinny, they’re dentists. You know, Charlie’s wife Gona, he’s got another brother who’s a dentist. So it’s amazing how there are certain families. And I don’t think it’s necessarily just an Iranian thing. I think they’re just families who just kind of follow that path of lots of dentists in you all get to work together as well, which is lovely.

Hussein Shaffie:
I think when you’re kind of born in Iran, education is key.

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
Everybody wants to become very successful. And if you are not, kind of is very difficult situation for you, so you need to kind of work very hard to become. And then medicine is a thing that top priority in Iran.

Andy & Chris:
Mm.

Hussein Shaffie:
I would say that probably in India also as well. I remember when I was actually funny. I was seven years old and then we had a kind of, we were outside in the school yard and we had a visit from kind of a teacher or supervisor. And the headmaster used to be one of kind of our family. And then they were queuing and the supervisor was asking, what do you want to become when you are growing older? And then. he asked me the same question and I said, I want to go to politics. And then suddenly my headmaster smacked me in the face and he said, go away, no, you’re not going to be, you need to say medicine, come back. I said, okay.

Andy & Chris:
It was a boner answer.

Hussein Shaffie:
I’m really sorry, I wanted to become a doctor. Said, oh, good boy, now go.

Andy & Chris:
Brilliant, yeah. Excellent. So when did you leave Iran and make your passage through to Sweden?

Hussein Shaffie:
I mean, first I went to Argentina, as I said,

Andy & Chris:
Right.

Hussein Shaffie:
for a year or so, and then went back looking after, obviously, my family. Then the situation was quite difficult, so

Andy & Chris:
Mmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
I just, we moved to Sweden, and…

Andy & Chris:
And did you move as a whole family to Sweden?

Hussein Shaffie:
That’s correct.

Andy & Chris:
Right. No, okay.

Hussein Shaffie:
My ex-wife, yes.

Andy & Chris:
Right, yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah, and then obviously going there is a new language for me and

Andy & Chris:
Yeah!

Hussein Shaffie:
working very hard. And sometimes nighttime shift, working in the

Andy & Chris:
Mmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
elderly houses or hospitals. And then during the daytime, I used to go to uni.

Andy & Chris:
Right.

Hussein Shaffie:
You want to build a life is not it’s not a joke. When I think kids these days. and the messing around and then comparing myself or people that I know is completely different. So

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
then obviously got children then studied dentistry and then obviously 1998 I moved to England.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
There was not many opportunity to work as a dentist in Sweden especially

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
for foreign person We’re talking about in 1990, so.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how did you find that transition going from Iran to Sweden? And there’s a reasonable kind of community of Iranians in Sweden, but was that an easy transition from Iran to Sweden and likewise going from Sweden to the UK?

Hussein Shaffie:
I think from Sweden to UK, extremely easy kind of.

Andy & Chris:
that.

Hussein Shaffie:
It has got difficulty, but I’ve been traveling from many places. But from Iran to Sweden was extremely difficult, especially

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
for ex-wife. The culture is completely different.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah

Hussein Shaffie:
I mean, we talking about like 30, 40 years ago. So

Andy & Chris:
Mm.

Hussein Shaffie:
in Sweden, they didn’t wanna talk to you. They, I mean, We used to have a neighbor for eight, nine years. And I think that maybe once, if I remember twice, we said, good morning, that’s it.

Andy & Chris:
Wow.

Hussein Shaffie:
Imagine you are a foreigner, you come into

Andy & Chris:
Mmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
a country, you can’t mingle with them, you can’t talk to them, you can’t go anywhere.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
It was quite tough.

Andy & Chris:
I can imagine and as humans we are we are social creatures We’d like to feel part of a community don’t we so when you feel kind of isolated like that. That’s hard And it’s very different isn’t it? I mean whereabouts in Iran were you Hussein?

Hussein Shaffie:
I was living in Shiraz,

Andy & Chris:
Right.

Hussein Shaffie:
quite south of

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
Iran.

Andy & Chris:
It was quite interesting. We did a podcast with Millard, you know, the singing dentist, and it was fascinating really, because I hadn’t really, and I’m not too sure whether many people in the West really think anything about Iran as to, apart from the political thing in Iran, because actually when he was then mentioning what Iran has as the culture and you know, even the geography, and then I went and did loads of research about Iran, and I was like, wow, this is like a… an amazing country with you know you have a you have a sea you have mountains you have you know we sort of have a very skewed view i think of iran it’s fascinating when he was sort of saying you know when you know we’ve got the mountains you we’ve got and i was thinking i’ve only ever thought of iran as desert and i think that unfortunately the west has this um skewed view because it thinks of the political bit rather than actually Iran as a beautiful country that it obviously is. And I think a lot of that gets driven by the media doesn’t it? You know it tends to appear in the news and it has been in the news you know in the last you know year of 18 months an awful lot because of the uprising but that tends to be the bit that you see which isn’t a fair representation.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah, I mean people, how they judge, it was funny because I mean as I said, end of 1998 when we were living in Sweden, so we had a kind of we found a friend, he was from church and they wanted to kind of have a meeting with the people from other countries and the school Obviously recommended us and then he invited us. Story short, we went and they invited few people, other people as well, Swedish people. And this guy, he became a very good friend to us, but unfortunately he died of cancer. And he went to library and find out what kind of dish Iranians like. So, and then

Andy & Chris:
Ah!

Hussein Shaffie:
he prepared, yes, and then he did a nice stuffed salmon. And it was really amazing and rice. And then we were eating and they had chicken as well. And then one of his friends suddenly we were eating and then he said, can I ask you a question or something? I said, yeah, go on. And he said, did you have a chicken in Iran? And I said, sorry, what was the chicken? Can you explain?

Andy & Chris:
Little did he know your dad had millions of them.

Hussein Shaffie:
And then, obviously, I said, my Swedish is not good. Can you explain? And then he pointed to the table, this is chicken. And I said, oh, unfortunately, this is the first time I’m eating chicken. And then he started kind of, I started winding him up, because obviously it was so annoying. And then I said, no, no. Every time we had a guest, my dad sent the butler killing a bird in the sky, and then we used to cook the bird. Oh. And then my friends came in, come on, he’s had had,

Andy & Chris:
Hahaha

Hussein Shaffie:
are you talking about that? Did he have a chicken in Iran? So, some people unfortunately, because they don’t know, they think that, oh,

Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
you’re coming from this country. Do you have mountain? Do you have chicken?

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
You know what I mean? So,

Andy & Chris:
But what’s

Hussein Shaffie:
yeah.

Andy & Chris:
lovely from that story, as you were saying, that when you went to Sweden, you know, there was kind of, it felt quite isolated. But, you know, your friend then cooked that stuffed salmon, that simple gesture of kind of offering food and trying to reflect and give you some sort of comfort from your homeland. Yeah, those things just mean so much, don’t they? And in essence, it’s a dinner. It’s just a dinner, but it’s so much more than just a dinner, isn’t it?

Hussein Shaffie:
Absolutely, yes. And obviously, we were so kind of eager to find people, to learn their culture, learn their language,

Andy & Chris:
Mmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
talking to people, and we were so, so lucky to find this family.

Andy & Chris:
Mmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
We still, I’m still friends with his daughter, but obviously he passed away

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
many years ago. So yeah, it was absolutely the gesture, as you said,

Andy & Chris:
Yeah,

Hussein Shaffie:
it was

Andy & Chris:
yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
a simple dinner.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
filled us with lots of joy.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, so 25 years ago in 1998 you came and joined us in the UK Scary isn’t it? It’s 25 years. 25 years. It’s mad. Isn’t it? So it seemed that long ago So how did that how did that start you came over you worked as an associate before setting your practices up What was your kind of dental journey like when you arrived?

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah, that’s correct. I came with my oldest daughter here because obviously I wanted her to start learning English or so. And one of my friends recommended a dental surgery in southeast of London. And yes, I went for an interview and then he said, okay, come and start tomorrow. So, okay, that’s great. And I started as a dentist, obviously my… language skill wasn’t that great. Obviously mixing English and Swedish and it was kind of a bit unique for patients because obviously even though they didn’t understand me very well going to reception asking he was talking to me but I didn’t understand much.

Andy & Chris:
Hahaha!

Hussein Shaffie:
Receptionist coming and asking me what did you want to do and said okay book him an appointment for this and that. So yes I was working and then the principal asked me to go and work in one of his dental surgery. They used to run, it was a kind of general anesthetic practice.

Andy & Chris:
Uh, okay.

Hussein Shaffie:
So I went there and, but after a few months they stopped general anesthetic in obviously dentistry or so.

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
And when I saw that dental surgery he had four associate, part time associates. disastrous people

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
didn’t get any materials no tools no instruments nothing absolutely nothing and then I pick up phone one evening and I said can I have a chat with you and then they obviously him and his brother they had several dental surgery at that time so I said yeah go on I said do you know what can I ask you it’s not about money and how much productivity these four dentists they kind of have. And then he gave me a figure and they said, okay, this is the way it is. And I said, what about if I work full time here and choose my own nurse and my reception and making more than these four people? And then he said, it’s not possible. I said, yeah, I make it possible. I said, okay, go on, just work couple of weeks, let me know, and then obviously I’m gonna make a decision. And I worked couple of weeks and then. He got rid of obviously four part-time associates and I started working and I chose my receptionist and my nurse and then after a month and a half, yeah, I was doing much better than obviously four part-time associates. So I worked there near three, four months and then I rang him again and then I said, listen, can we have a… beer together. He said, yeah, okay, let me ask my brother if he can. And then so we went to a pub and I paid for the beer obviously. And I said, I want to take over your surgery. But then he laughed and he said, how long you been in this country? I said, nearly four months. And you want to

Andy & Chris:
Hahaha!

Hussein Shaffie:
take over surgery? I said, yeah, what’s wrong with that? I’ve heard that you wanted to sell to the previous associates. Yeah, I wanted but do you have any money? I said, no. And then they looked at each other and said, what is he talking about? How are you going to buy? I said, listen, I take over, you give me a price. And then when I finished paying you off, then you put the name, the deed on my name and everything else till then you don’t need to give me anything, just your word. And I said, okay. And what about the interest? I said, whatever you want, tell me. And then he said, okay, 11%. So wow.

Andy & Chris:
When I said whatever you want, I didn’t mean 11%. Ha ha.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, it took me six, seven months to pay him off.

Andy & Chris:
six seven months.

Hussein Shaffie:
I owned my first practice. So I was…

Andy & Chris:
And is that Bexley Heath Dental Practice, which you still own

Hussein Shaffie:
No, no,

Andy & Chris:
today?

Hussein Shaffie:
it was another one. Yeah.

Andy & Chris:
Ah, right.

Hussein Shaffie:
So,

Andy & Chris:
Okay, so people

Hussein Shaffie:
yeah.

Andy & Chris:
listening on this podcast, that’s a real example of getting off your backside and doing something. And finding a solution and

Hussein Shaffie:
Up.

Andy & Chris:
working hard. I’ll tell you what’s interesting in that story, Hussein, is that if you hadn’t proved your worth by… Demonstrating to them that they could dispense with four part-time associates and you could gross the same as them which meant The efficiency for them in running that business was more than quartered You know It was a now a much simpler business to run if you hadn’t done that The likelihood of them entertaining the conversation around you buying the practice probably wouldn’t have existed now And I think the lesson in there is you know, it’s always good to give something before you ask for something Which is exactly what you did and that paid dividends

Hussein Shaffie:
Absolutely, because obviously I had a goal and aim, the same as in Sweden. When I went there, I wanted to learn the language as soon as possible. The first thing I did, I went to a library and then I asked a lady with my obviously broken English or so and I said, I want to learn Swedish. And she was very, very kind and old lady. And then she said, okay, I’ll show you something. And She took me to the back of the library and said, okay, these are the cassettes. These are for blind people and comes with the magazines with the newspaper for kind of deaf people.

Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
You get the news on cassettes and obviously the newspaper. And then she gave me one, obviously to take home. And then I went back two days later. So I’ve done it, I finished. So what? Yeah, I finished it. And she asked me a few questions and then said, wow, I’ve never seen in my life somebody so curious and

Andy & Chris:
Yeah, amazing.

Hussein Shaffie:
into learn something. And then she gave me more and more and more. And then four months later, honestly, I was sitting and having a discussion over a coffee in a library with her. And then she told me, and then Swedish is quite difficult. Quite difficult.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
So when I was in, obviously UK, My aim and goal was to become successful. But again, I was young. So when you are young, you make lots of mistakes as well. Yes, I became quite successful and business owner after just four or five months. And I worked very hard to build that business.

Andy & Chris:
But I think also, I think when you’re young, whilst you say you make lots of mistakes, it’s also experimenting, isn’t it? And I think when we’re younger, we’re all a bit more fearless than we are as we get older. But also, we’ve talked before about the power of naivety, in that if you genuinely had known all that would have been involved in taking that business over as an older man, you might not have done it. Whereas as a young, bullish guy who’d only been in the country for four months, to you it just seemed like an obvious thing to do. But also really interesting the fact that you were saying it was just you and your eldest daughter. So you’ve then got in Sweden your wife, or I presume that might be the ex-wife, and other children. Is that right? Is that so like, I mean, that’s a real big wrench itself, isn’t it? To

Hussein Shaffie:
Yes,

Andy & Chris:
decide

Hussein Shaffie:
because

Andy & Chris:
to come on your own.

Hussein Shaffie:
when we obviously moved with my oldest daughter, I had another little baby she stayed with my wife in Sweden and then they joined us seven months later. So I wanted

Andy & Chris:
Wow.

Hussein Shaffie:
to prepare my oldest daughter for school and obviously the language because you in Sweden you kind of start school at age seven. And when she moved here, and then even though she was 11 years old, but she studied only up to year three in Sweden. And then in England, she’s supposed to start year kind of five. So she’s a little behind. So I had to kind of prepare her. So, yeah, looking after her for a few months and obviously running surgery as well.

Andy & Chris:
Mmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
It was quite tough. I was doing out. hours, emergencies, home visits and all sorts. And no, it doesn’t matter Sunday, 10 o’clock evening or whatever.

Andy & Chris:
Bye.

Hussein Shaffie:
Because my aim was to build a life.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah And also going back to those lessons that your father taught you as a as a young hussein back in Iran You know you work hard and you get rewards.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yes, sir.

Andy & Chris:
I’m gonna say something here that might not wear well with some of our younger listeners, but If you look at what you did and how you did it, it made me laugh and smile when you said, it was quite tough. You know, I think it’s a bit more than quite. And then you’ve got some of these dentists who are qualifying nowadays who were saying, I think I only want to work three days because it might be a bit stressful. And I just think, you know, hang on, maybe have a chat with someone that is saying to say, it doesn’t just come down the road for being successful. You sort of have to put the graft in. Yeah, it’s

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah.

Andy & Chris:
interesting. Very interesting.

Hussein Shaffie:
And

Andy & Chris:
Bye bye.

Hussein Shaffie:
to be honest with you, yes, working hard, I think is still, I believe, in working hard and rather than because obviously when I came to UK, I had 600 pounds in my pocket, nothing else. So I had to work hard and nothing kind of stopped me. I remember after I took over my first surgery, I went to HSBC, Bund, and then I said, may I speak to a… Kind of somebody in charge of mortgage and says yeah, I come and have a seat and then I said, okay then I thinking to buy a house and Can I get a mortgage and say of course, of course have a seat and alright And this is what we need two years accounts and these that I said, excuse me I’ve been here for months and he looked at me and kind of silly and says, you know what? What about if you go and come back in a couple years time and bring your obviously paperwork? I said, okay, no worries. And then, to be honest with you, waited another seven, eight months and then went to another bank, another bank, got mortgage. So

Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
this is what I wanted to do. So,

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
but

Andy & Chris:
Yay.

Hussein Shaffie:
again, you said exactly, younger generation, obviously, they are, I would say, lucky. But some of them, obviously, I’m not talking about dentists, everybody is.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah, they thinking, sitting down, do nothing, things gonna come.

Andy & Chris:
Mm.

Hussein Shaffie:
I don’t think it’s going to be yes, obviously the world has changed. Everything is different. Maybe sometimes you don’t need to work hard. I don’t know. Working on currencies or these kinds of things people do.

Andy & Chris:
Mmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
But again, you need to spend time.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah. And so you’ve obviously now got your Samford Clinic and the Bexley Heath Clinic. What’s the fast forward from that first practice you had to where we are now? When did you set those practices up?

Hussein Shaffie:
So, when I took over my first one, obviously after four years or so, four or five years, I sold it to one of my associates. I mean during these four or five years, I became partner to a couple of my friends and we opened a few practices. But again, I’m Iranian, so that time, it’s Iranian, has no… I mean what I learned from, to be honest with you British, is everything is on a paper. everything you go to solicitor write it down even you are a best friend you still doing prop in proper way, but

Andy & Chris:
Mm.

Hussein Shaffie:
in those days we were doing it based on handshake

Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
So yes, obviously handshake is a lot of people involving the situation. So after a year or so unfortunately, I lost all the practices and Obviously lost money as well lost Friendship, which is the worst

Andy & Chris:
Wow.

Hussein Shaffie:
of all. And that’s it. I sold my first practice, took over the back sleep center practice and it was a one-man surgery, very run down, lots of potential, but very, very run down. When few people came in, bought it, sold it, it was quite difficult. When I came, took over, it was one-man surgery. So I worked there, then built it up, refurbished it, two rooms, then three rooms or so, and end up, obviously after four or five years, to nine rooms. Then I saw obviously again potential. We had garden at the back and then car park. So, again refurbishment, we did a beautiful private surgery at the back, which is joined from the mixed practice with a corridor. And then as soon as you step to the kind of going to the corridor to the new surgery, completely a beautiful private practice, which we do all the specialty or so under one roof.

Andy & Chris:
Right.

Hussein Shaffie:
Then we became kind of 13 rooms. And then recently we bought another one very near to the surgery. It’s around 150. yards away. So the whole front part, all the NHS patients and everything obviously, we moved to the new practice

Andy & Chris:
Mm.

Hussein Shaffie:
and it became nine new rooms in the new practice and then we’re doing another refurbishment in the front part and it become obviously another nine new rooms which in total is 23 rooms. So, but

Andy & Chris:
Wow.

Hussein Shaffie:
not working as hard as before.

Andy & Chris:
Now you’re managing.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yes, kind of. I’m working a couple days a week, so I think I’ve got enough to be honest with you.

Andy & Chris:
But you’ve got, as I understand, you’ve got a team of about 80 people working with you across your practices. So there’s a lot going on there. How do you delegate? How do you manage it efficiently to make sure that the culture in your practice stays tight? Everybody knows what they’re doing, everybody behaves in a particular way. That patient experience remains consistent, even though you’re not there, because you can’t be everywhere at once. How do you do that?

Hussein Shaffie:
Absolutely. And at the moment, I think the last day was around, we have between 95 to 100 people. So obviously we have a clinical director, we have obviously managers and administration team or so. And mainly they do the things and then obviously some things come up or I involve myself going to the meetings. Zoom meeting this but again, it’s I’m not doing any micromanagements these days

Andy & Chris:
Mmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
and you know, indeed Has become very difficult after kovat and We lost lots of the senior Stuff because obviously everybody wanted to work from home Nobody wants to come to practice and not

Andy & Chris:
Mm.

Hussein Shaffie:
necessarily Obviously one became state agent the other one working in the bank and lots of them obviously the only reason is just they want to work from home which I don’t

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
blame them. Yes, managers they running the obviously both clinics and I’m doing a bit but I don’t go very often every day sitting there and micromanage the whole thing because it’s not healthy

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
and It’s very difficult these days, so leave it

Andy & Chris:
And

Hussein Shaffie:
more.

Andy & Chris:
also I think you’re right, if you have good people in your team, I think one of the obligations on a business leader is to get out of the way and let them do their job. And I think if you constantly sit with somebody or on somebody, they’re never going to flourish and they’re never going to give you the capacity. Because how does your split look now between working in the business? So I assume at the moment you’re primarily focused on implants yourself.

Hussein Shaffie:
That’s great, kid.

Andy & Chris:
Right, so clinically you’re doing implants and how much of your time does that take against how much time do you spend working kind of on the business as opposed to in the business?

Hussein Shaffie:
I mean, two days a week, normally I work with patients. And probably I would say in addition, an hour, another day, I spending in the surgery or meetings or so. And then the rest I try to do other things. Not doing dentistry because as I said, yes, as much as I love dentistry and is really my passion, but it’s sometimes it becomes difficult these days. So I try to, kind of avoided not doing the way I did many years ago.

Andy & Chris:
Cool. And actually, I think that probably arguably makes you a better dentist and business owner, because I think dentistry can feel quite a small world at times. And if you spend all your time in your practice and all your time thinking and obsessing and being in dentistry, sometimes you need those outside influences to get some ideas or some new creative creativity to feed back into your business as well. Build a structure to run it.

Hussein Shaffie:
Absolutely, because one thing that I’ve obviously noticed in the last many years that I’ve seen lots of associates coming in and going out, so it’s that lots of associates, they won’t do everything. They wanna do cosmetics, they wanna do implant, they wanna do facial, they wanna do this, they wanna do that, and then how long experience they have, six months. I understand, but in my opinion, you need to be good at one thing. This is the reason 15 years ago, 16 years ago, I said, you know what, I’m going to go and learn how we place implants and I’m going to be good at it. And I’m not doing anything else. I’m not doing fillings. I’m not doing many other things or end also, because I’m not good at it. And I’m good at placing implants, restoring them. But lots of younger generation, they don’t kind of do the way I do

Andy & Chris:
Hmm. Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
and

Andy & Chris:
Do you

Hussein Shaffie:
go

Andy & Chris:
think

Hussein Shaffie:
to

Andy & Chris:
there’s

Hussein Shaffie:
work.

Andy & Chris:
a, do you think there’s a trend towards, um, younger dentists following sort of fashions and fads? Cause obviously at the moment, there’s, there’s a lot of work available around kind of clear aligners, you know, bonding, composite, binding type, type treatment. Is there, is there a temptation amongst younger dentists to be drawn by, by the fashion of dentistry as opposed to perhaps doing what you did, which is applying yourself quite deep in a niche?

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah, absolutely. You are 100% right. And obviously lots of courses and they want to obviously drown themselves into everything and nothing. I understand lots of them are very, very clever. They become very good at it. But imagine yourself, you’re spending all your time to 10 things rather than you spend time on one thing. You become

Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Hussein Shaffie:
an expert and end up and you kind of go into ortho. in visa line and this and that. There is nothing wrong with it if they can do it. Of course they should do it. But what I’m saying is under six months later things go wrong, they can’t manage it because they didn’t invest much

Andy & Chris:
Hmm

Hussein Shaffie:
time.

Andy & Chris:
haven’t had the experience of it

Hussein Shaffie:
Exactly. So is everything kind of the world has changed.

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
I think we’ve been working on my young daughter as well. She’s

Andy & Chris:
Ha ha!

Hussein Shaffie:
but I have four daughters and If I tell you you’re gonna be kind of surprised the oldest one is 35 The next one is 25. The third one is 15 and the fourth one is 5. So

Andy & Chris:
Wow. Now either that’s supreme planning. Or

Hussein Shaffie:
Exactly.

Andy & Chris:
you’ve got, or there’s a 10-year-ach.

Hussein Shaffie:
Exactly, exactly. Yeah, 5, 15, 25, 35. So we’re working on 15 years old. So.

Andy & Chris:
I’m thinking by the time the five-year-old gets married, so that’s going to be like 20 years maybe. Oh flip,

Hussein Shaffie:
I

Andy & Chris:
you better get saving because imagine how much weddings that are going to cost then.

Hussein Shaffie:
But by that time, probably not here.

Andy & Chris:
Well one of the things that we kind of loosely touched on because you mentioned food a couple of times is during lockdown you actually started a YouTube channel around food. And it’s obviously gone incredibly well. I’ve tuned in and I love it. And you’ve now got over 7,000 subscribers to your channel. But was it just a lockdown project? Was it something you’ve always been interested in, but just didn’t have the time or the desire to take it to the public? How did that come about?

Hussein Shaffie:
To be honest with you, food always was my passion. And I always said that if I wasn’t a dentist, I would be a chef. So

Andy & Chris:
Ah, okay.

Hussein Shaffie:
it relaxes me a lot. And when I’m cooking, I don’t think about anything else. It’s just I’m relaxed and I can create from nothing a delicious food. And it doesn’t matter if I have these ingredients or that ingredients and make it really, really cool dish. So. Yeah, during the COVID obviously was the time that I could spend more time obviously cooking or so. And then a couple of my daughters, they said, okay, why not kind of start your own channel as

Andy & Chris:
Wow.

Hussein Shaffie:
a kind of joke? So, hey, let’s do it. And I started so and normally I do here and there put a post. And yeah, lots of people actually approaching me, next time, can you do this or how do you cook this or so? Yeah, actually,

Andy & Chris:
Do you cook at home a lot, I say?

Hussein Shaffie:
I do actually. I would say 60%, 70% of the home.

Andy & Chris:
Oh wow, okay. Yeah. And it’s lovely as well because obviously, you know- Can’t wait for an invite. And because it’s all kind of, you know, Persian food, which looks delicious, it’s quite nice to kind of give you an insight to the culture. Did it start with family favorites? Are there certain kind of family dishes that you always go to? So you look like with your hands, your hand there, you look like you’re about to pick something up. I was going to say- That had a sense of picking something up to eat it, really.

Hussein Shaffie:
Actually, it’s one of my favorite dish that whole family loves it. And I do it once, maybe twice a year. It’s the stuffed salmon, kind of the same kind that my Swedish friend did

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
in… So I prepared quite well. It takes a couple days. All the ingredients,

Andy & Chris:
I won’t.

Hussein Shaffie:
prepare all nuts and berries and dry fruits and everything, vegetables. and then you put it in the oven, salmon put it in the oven. Delicious, absolutely delicious and quite healthy dish actually.

Andy & Chris:
Have you learned how to cook, what’s that thing, you might not have had it in Iran, chicken.

Hussein Shaffie:
Oh you think yes? I’m still trying yes.

Andy & Chris:
What’s the one activity that makes you happiest? You cite me as a guy who has a fantastic outlook and optimistic demeanor, but what’s the thing that makes you the happiest?

Hussein Shaffie:
I think cycling.

Andy & Chris:
Really? Right.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah. When I go for cycling, I can go miles and miles listening to music because

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
I have no access kind of to phone to answering any calls or

Andy & Chris:
Ha

Hussein Shaffie:
any message

Andy & Chris:
ha

Hussein Shaffie:
from around.

Andy & Chris:
ha. Shut yourself out almost, yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
Absolutely. And then I go and then riding for miles and then after three, four hours sometimes I come back and then I’m so refreshed,

Andy & Chris:
Wow.

Hussein Shaffie:
so good. and I’m so kind of, you know, they feel good about yourself.

Andy & Chris:
You’re energized. It’s funny, we spoke to John Nicholas, a dentist, and he’s big into mental health well-being, and he talked about meditation. And I said to John, I said, I tried meditation, it just didn’t work for me, I just couldn’t kind of get on with it. But I swim, most days I’ll leave the office and go for a swim. And he said, for me, that was my form of meditation, because you get in the pool, similar to you, no phone, you’re on your own, you’ve just got your thoughts. And he was saying that kind of meditation doesn’t necessarily need to be kind of sitting on the floor, you know, cross-legged, you know, listening to music or chanting. He said it can be whatever it is that gives you that kind of sense of serenity and calmness. And it sounds the way you describe cycling. That was almost kind of your form of meditation.

Hussein Shaffie:
Absolutely, because it’s whatever we make you feel good and feel good about yourself I think this is the kind of meditation isn’t it? So

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
for me is a cycling cooking and For lots of people as you said gym building up

Andy & Chris:
Yeah.

Hussein Shaffie:
the muscles or Asian yoga I It works for me

Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, excellent, excellent. I say it’s been a wonderful chat, it’s been brilliant. I think your life story is great. I think those kind of values that your father instilled into you in those early years. really kind of set you up for that trajectory of success that you’ve had so far and I’m sure you’re only into a couple of chapters of what will become your ultimate story. I’m really impressed you look so relaxed and so young and you’ve got a five-year-old. That’s elevated you not only with all your businesses but flip. Very impressive. We always finish up with I guess in the same way we always ask them two questions and our first question for you is if you could be a fly on the wall with somebody in a certain situation. Who would that be with and when would it be?

Hussein Shaffie:
So I’m going to answer probably you’re going to be surprised. I’ve never heard from any of your other things. To be honest with you, I would love to be in that room with Che Guevara. Che Guevara always been my idol and his ideology. And kind of his life is spent on kind of fighting for human rights.

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
and helped obviously to liberate Cuba. And in my younger days, I had the same kind of ideas and I was fighting for human rights. And so definitely I would love you to know. I could be in that.

Andy & Chris:
A different sort of freedom fighter. Did you have a t-shirt? Because I think a lot of people of our generation, because you must be similar age to me, would have had a t-shirt. Yeah. That’s sort of like everybody

Hussein Shaffie:
Oh

Andy & Chris:
had

Hussein Shaffie:
absolutely, absolutely.

Andy & Chris:
a, everybody had a, normally a red t-shirt with a black outline. Yeah, I think it was like Citizen Smith, wasn’t it? I think it was all

Hussein Shaffie:
It’s

Andy & Chris:
Citizen Smith style t-shirt. Oh no, that’d be a very interesting person to have spent some time with. And if you could meet somebody, if you could sit down and have a beer, a glass of wine, a coffee or a stuffed salmon, who would you like to sit down and have a conversation with?

Hussein Shaffie:
I think definitely Nelson Mandela.

Andy & Chris:
But.

Hussein Shaffie:
It’s my priority. Definitely. Again, he worked hard. The aim he had for humanity and also fighting on his life, being in prison for 27 years.

Andy & Chris:
Mmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
And he came out well. And then obviously, he ran it.

Andy & Chris:
Hmm.

Hussein Shaffie:
So definitely, he would be on my top list.

Andy & Chris:
Well, yeah, no, he would be fascinating. Have you been to Robben Island? Have you been to Robben Island, Hussain? Have you been to Robben Island in

Hussein Shaffie:
No.

Andy & Chris:
Cape Town? Ah, right, okay.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yeah.

Andy & Chris:
Maybe one day, maybe one day.

Hussein Shaffie:
Yes.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah. Hussein, it’s been wonderful. Thank you for your time. Yeah, brilliant. Like I say, you’re very generous with your time, given you’ve got so much going on with two practices and four children and a younger daughter and a wife and everything else going on. But honestly, I think your story will really make people reflect on how they operate, what they’re doing and what they want out of life, but also your living example of what you also have to give. depending on what you want to get out, we kind of get out what we put in. So from that, we’re very grateful for your time and for your story today.

Hussein Shaffie:
Thank you.

Andy & Chris:
Yeah, definitely. Thank you very much. I look forward to your next episode on YouTube as well. Thank you very

Hussein Shaffie:
Thank

Andy & Chris:
much.

Hussein Shaffie:
you very much.

Andy & Chris:
Ha

Hussein Shaffie:
And it’s

Andy & Chris:
ha ha.

Hussein Shaffie:
really, really pleasure to meet you guys. And again, it was lovely to asking me to be in your podcast.

Andy & Chris:
No, not at all. We’ll

Hussein Shaffie:
Thank

Andy & Chris:
grab

Hussein Shaffie:
you.

Andy & Chris:
you time. Look

Hussein Shaffie:
Have

Andy & Chris:
after

Hussein Shaffie:
a lovely

Andy & Chris:
yourself.

Hussein Shaffie:
day. Thank you.

Andy & Chris:
Cheers.