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Dentology Podcast with Rachel Derby


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Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Rachel Derby

Episode Release Date – Monday 8 April 2024

Andy & Chris (00:01.376)
So another one, another one to record. Can you believe all these years we’ve been doing it now? And everyone is a joy and always interesting. It is, it is. I marvel at how many interesting people exist in the art of the world of dentistry. I’d like to say it’s probably down to us, obviously. But no, I think we have very, very interesting guests who tell us lots of stuff about themselves. Exactly, exactly. We get the easy job. We ask questions. We sit and listen. So we’d sit and listen. So today.

We are so pleased. We have Dr. Rachel Darby joining us. And Rachel is co-principal of the Chapel Dental Cosmetic and Implant Center in High Wycombe with her husband. It’s a long title. It’s a very long title, very long title. President of the British Association of Private Dentistry, the BAPD, which came to life during COVID and a great contribution to dentistry. Young Dentist of the Year in 2021. She might have forgotten about that. We just reminded her there. Is that because she got older? Yes.

And also a mother, which is incredibly important. Welcome, Rachel, how are you? Boom.

Rachel Evans (01:04.361)
Thank you and 2022, I just want to add. And I’m not too old. And I’m not too old. I was just glad. Well, if I said that, then I’d be giving away my age, Chris, wouldn’t I? But let’s just say, it’s very good makeup and skincare. And a big bit of vaseline over the lens.

Andy & Chris (01:07.556)
Oh! Wow! Yeah, how old do you have to be a young dentist? A th-

Andy & Chris (01:18.964)
Okay, that’s fine. Obviously you look very young.

Andy & Chris (01:25.349)
Ha ha

Andy & Chris (01:29.748)
Yeah, I thought it was just pixelated.

Rachel Evans (01:30.779)
Yeah, I’m… I was just glad somebody still thought I was young. That’s it. I’m taking it to the grave. I’m running for the hills.

Andy & Chris (01:36.456)
Oh, take it, take it. Put us in comparison to these two, old, duff as you are. Yes, very young, very young compared to us. So, Rachel, let’s get.

Rachel Evans (01:43.57)
No, well, it’s such a, it’s so lovely to be surrounded by such handsome men talking to such handsome men about my favourite topic, which is me. And when they come in, and when they come in, you can tell them hello from me.

Andy & Chris (01:51.417)
Oh. Yeah. Ha ha ha.

Andy & Chris (01:59.625)
I think you’ll find there in the back of the car. Quick, look out of your shoulder. That would be terrifying. That’s going to make people go to YouTube and go, what’s going on there?

Rachel Evans (02:04.29)
Ha ha

Andy & Chris (02:12.172)
To start, Rachel, before we get to your dental world, which is littered with success, including young dentists of the year, 21 and 22. And 22, but not 23. Before we get to the dental bit, let’s go right back to the beginning. What was your childhood like, your upbringing? Where were you brought up? You got siblings, your parents?

Rachel Evans (02:21.196)
Thank you.

Rachel Evans (02:29.438)
Well, I had a very lovely childhood and I would definitely have to say that because I know my mummy will be listening. So I’ll say it now. Hello mummy, mummy Darby that was listening to this. So I was born and raised in Northern Ireland, but I have to say very sadly, I have now lived officially in England longer than I have lived in Northern Ireland as of October last year. So essentially, I think I’m eligible to play for like the.

Andy & Chris (02:38.397)

Andy & Chris (02:54.001)
Wow. Right.

Rachel Evans (02:58.582)
the English ladies rugby or soccer team now. I think I’m eligible for that. And I, sadly, and I have two older sisters. So we’re a family of girls. My mother was a teacher and my father, well, he worked in the prison services as civil servant. And it was really both of a very stressful job. And it was really both of those, my parents that really…

Andy & Chris (03:03.841)

Andy & Chris (03:18.609)

Rachel Evans (03:24.602)
Education was very, very important to them and really they instigated a very much a lifelong, a lifelong joy of learning for it. And I had a really happy childhood, absolutely loved my childhood. And yeah, that’s essentially it in a nutshell. Nothing too exciting happened.

Andy & Chris (03:27.552)

Andy & Chris (03:32.821)

Andy & Chris (03:41.84)
Whereabouts in Northern Ireland Rachel? Are you Belfast or sort of more rural?

Rachel Evans (03:46.974)
Very rural. So I was south east, northern Ireland. That’s a mouthful, isn’t it? So I was between Belfast and the border in a town called Banbridge. I wasn’t too border country. I’m not like a culture. Yeah. South east.

Andy & Chris (03:52.108)
Yeah. Wow. I was saying, must be border country. Ah, okay.

Andy & Chris (04:01.826)
Ah, okay.

I went on holiday. So I went on holiday once to Northern Ireland because I got some friends there and the lady said to us Helen said do you want rural? And we went yeah, we’ll do a rural boy. Was it rural? It was like a cottage in the middle of a field with cows. It was like bloody hell. This is rural I thought rural might be at least somebody near me Was your was your was your coming to england connected with studying dentistry or did you come over? right

Rachel Evans (04:20.85)
Yeah, that’s quite similar.

Rachel Evans (04:29.606)
Yes, I kind of felt I wanted to spread my wings a little bit. And, you know, Ireland can be very provincial and very small town thoughts. So my mother wanted me to go to Belfast or Dublin, but my sister was in Manchester, you know, it was very England back then, you know, Northern Ireland has changed throughout the years. It’s not a very multicultural country, but back then it wasn’t.

Andy & Chris (04:33.77)

Andy & Chris (04:53.099)

Rachel Evans (04:58.282)
and you know I was drawn to the bright shiny lights of England really. My sister went to university at Manchester and I was able to go and visit her at times.

Andy & Chris (04:58.764)

Andy & Chris (05:02.768)

Andy & Chris (05:07.074)
Was that your sister the dentist or the other sister? Right.

Rachel Evans (05:09.49)
It was, it was my sister that was a dentist. So she studied at Manchester, which is where I ended up studying as well. So my mum had a good bit, you know, she let me go to England, but I still had family close around, which, you know, somebody to keep an eye on me. Um, and yeah, I was just really attracted to the bright lights of, of Manchester and, and England in general, which was so different to what even Belfast would have been back then.

Andy & Chris (05:16.909)

Andy & Chris (05:23.534)

Andy & Chris (05:27.276)

Andy & Chris (05:31.732)
I can imagine. And Manchester’s a really cool city. Were you and your sister at dental school at the same time, but years apart, or she finished? Right.

Rachel Evans (05:36.723)
Oh it is.

Rachel Evans (05:41.434)
No, she had finished and was out working and I went. So she’s about eight years older than me. So I really am a baby.

Andy & Chris (05:48.436)
Okay, okay, and how much of an influence was your sister’s choice to do dentistry on your own choice?

Rachel Evans (05:58.326)
It was a massive influence. I always knew I wanted to do something, medicine or dentistry, potentially law or pharmacy. I did my work experience in a pharmacy and disclaimer now, I’ll apologize in advance, but I just felt like you were a glorified shop assistant. And so I knew that wasn’t for me. Can we edit that part out? No.

Andy & Chris (06:20.983)
Thank goodness this is a dental podcast. Because if it was a pharmacy podcast, we’d die. For any pharmacist listening.

Rachel Evans (06:25.99)
I’m sorry, but that’s how it felt in my two days work experience doing it. Um, we can maybe edit that part out or something. And then, um, law, I just, you know, it is the truth. Law, I liked, um, Ali McBeal. Do you remember Ali McBeal back in the day? Dancing baby. That’s it. And then I was told it’s nothing like that. So then medicine or dentistry and medicine, medicine you’ve got.

Andy & Chris (06:37.508)
It’s the truth.

Andy & Chris (06:43.356)
Oh, Ali McBeal. Yeah, Calista Flucard, wasn’t it? It was, yeah, well done.

Andy & Chris (06:51.661)
Ha ha ha.

Rachel Evans (06:54.842)
ends to worry about and stuff usually come out of the two ends, whereas dentistry only have one end to worry about and nothing tends to come out of that end. And my sister, she did dentistry and she…

Andy & Chris (06:57.133)

Andy & Chris (07:05.928)
I like the very methodical science. Yeah, the logic. How you chose your career is to do with what comes out of our offices.

Rachel Evans (07:09.739)
Yeah, that’s it, in a nutshell. And my sister had said, you know, dentistry is a great career. It’s you know, nine to five and you earn loads of money. And I might add that this was pre UDS, pre 2006 contract. So things were very, very different back then. And then, you know, I took a chance, I did my work experience and I really liked it. And I have to say hand in heart, I…

Andy & Chris (07:16.568)
half the volume.

Andy & Chris (07:27.118)

Rachel Evans (07:37.73)
do not regret my choice of going into dentistry. It’s a career that served me well. And my daughter, I think she’s showing a bit of a flair for a medical side with her little, she’s only three with her little doctor box. And she keeps saying that she wants to be a dentist. And I’d be very, very happy for her to be a dentist. I really think it’s a brilliant career.

Andy & Chris (07:40.932)

Andy & Chris (07:50.596)
I won’t

Andy & Chris (07:56.484)
Cool. So you came over to the Bright Lights of Manchester. What was dental, seduced, what was your dental school experience like? Was it a good experience? Because you’ve gone from being in rural Northern Ireland to coming over to arguably the second biggest city in the country. A lot going on. It’s a real culture contrast. And then you’ve got dental school experience in the mix as well.

Rachel Evans (08:00.49)
I was seduced. Seduced.

Rachel Evans (08:23.73)
Well, it was definitely an experience, you know, something I did not expect. You know, I was fresh off the boat, shall we say, which I was. I got the ferry over to Stranraer in Scotland and drove down and I’d never seen anything like it before. So I was a little bit apprehensive and, you know, a little bit scary. I went to school with a thousand white people. That’s what my upbringing was. You know, we have to remember this was Northern Ireland in the nineties. Yes, there was.

Andy & Chris (08:47.648)


Rachel Evans (08:51.662)
but it was a very, very different world and you know, a thousand white people. And then coming over to Manchester and seeing all of the different cultures, I was taken aback a bit. I remember seeing new people in, you know, the hijab for the first time. I’d never seen this before in my life. But you know, you quickly get used to it. It took a while for people to understand me. There we go. I did. And I’m a posh Northern Irish accent as well, I might like to add.

Andy & Chris (08:54.619)

Andy & Chris (08:59.736)
Didn’t even think about that, yeah, yeah.

Andy & Chris (09:06.096)

Andy & Chris (09:11.36)

I was going to say you rock up with a very Northern Ireland accent. Yeah, for sure.

Andy & Chris (09:21.337)
It must have mellowed in the intervening years, I can imagine when you first arrived. What’s going on?

Rachel Evans (09:21.779)

Rachel Evans (09:25.886)
I know I kept saying, so it is, so it is, which I didn’t even realize I was saying, but no, Manchester dental school was absolutely brilliant. I loved my time there. I made so many great friends. Hello, if you’re listening. And also it was kind of, I went to dental school in 2005. So Facebook was just in England at the end of what, 06. So also, you know, you’re doing university at a time when social media has just really been…

Andy & Chris (09:48.387)

Rachel Evans (09:53.398)
born and brought to life. It was a very fun, playful area to be in, not what it’s like now. So it was very, yeah, it was just a great experience. The teaching was great as well. And I really enjoyed myself. I think I enjoyed myself a bit too much because I almost failed my first year at a pass field, Viva.

Andy & Chris (10:01.239)

Andy & Chris (10:11.596)
I was going to ask you, were you focused, party, or party and focused?

Rachel Evans (10:19.99)
because I was out drinking too much and partying too much, to be honest, at the cleaner hearts.

Andy & Chris (10:20.096)
Ooh. Oh. Oh, okay. So that was like the climatizing. That was your Manchester climatization year.

Rachel Evans (10:29.754)
I blame my mother, she never really let me go out beforehand and then I went absolutely buck mad when I went to university.

Andy & Chris (10:38.007)
Okay mummy, Rachel is blaming you now. So you then qualify and buy.

Rachel Evans (10:38.242)
So, feel the warmth and warmth.

Andy & Chris (10:45.484)
today’s standards, you then worked in the NHS for seven years. And I say by today’s standards because there does seem to be kind of trend amongst younger dentists to kind of qualify. And as soon as they qualify, they want to kind of get out into private practice and, you know, clear aligners and composite, whatever else you might be, attracts them. So seven years in the NHS is quite a while, but I’m interested to know, was that for you time well spent in seeing a real diversity of dentistry, honing your communication skills with patients?

Rachel Evans (10:49.619)
All good.

Rachel Evans (11:03.291)

Andy & Chris (11:15.638)
you see lots of patients. Was it a good learning period?

Rachel Evans (11:19.184)
I think it was. I was very, very lucky early on. I’d just qualified and I had a mentor in David Winkler and he invited me to BAD, British Association of Aesthetic Dentistry. And I went there for a few years very early on in my career and I just…

Andy & Chris (11:28.716)

Rachel Evans (11:35.81)
The type of dentistry that was on display was just so incredibly inspiring. And I knew that I might never get to that, those echelons and that type of dentistry, but it’s, that’s what I want to aspire to be in that type of clinician. So I always knew I wanted to go private because you would never be able to do that in the NHS. So I was probably the world’s worst associate. I would take my time. I would, I was always going on courses.

Andy & Chris (11:49.763)

Rachel Evans (12:03.778)
bettering myself and I would take my time and do that work. So I earned very, very little as an NHS associate. But it’s difficult nowadays. The NHS contract is very unworkable. But I feel time spent in the NHS is worthwhile because purely you’re seeing so many people, you’re getting to improve your communication skills constantly. You’re getting to practice dentistry. You’re getting to cut teeth. You’re getting to prep. You’re getting to…

Andy & Chris (12:24.372)

Rachel Evans (12:33.97)
um, fill teeth, you’re getting to communicate that with the patients that you probably just wouldn’t get that sheer number just going in and doing it on the NHS. And, and I know I didn’t have the confidence to go immediately private. Um, at the start it was, it would just have been too much to me. I had still quite a lot to learn. I was quite green and I think you are green coming out of dental school.

Andy & Chris (12:40.258)

Andy & Chris (12:56.365)
Hmm. Is there an argument then that perhaps, I’m not sure when Rishi mentioned about the locking of some sort, that was just kind of a suggestion as opposed to what’s happening, but would you think something of that ilk would work better where newly qualified dentists need to spend some time in the NHS, not necessarily to pay the NHS back, but to develop clinical and non-clinical skills so they’re then better able to deliver private dentistry if that’s their choosing in the future?

Rachel Evans (13:21.794)
It’s a really interesting argument, I think, with what they’re trying to say, because they are trying to tie them in, young dentists in. It has to be done fairly. Are you doing it with other professional degrees? If they want to do a case where they, especially, you know, I was very, very cheap fees. I think I was the last fee, year fee of like £1,500. It still took me a while to pay off my student loan. But if they were going to pay for my entire £9,000 worth of student fees, and every year they did that, I’d have to pay into the NHS.

Andy & Chris (13:27.693)

Rachel Evans (13:51.546)
I would probably have done it because I’d been from a background I wouldn’t have been able to afford that and okay, you could be coming out with no debt after so many years. Similar to what the army does. But you can’t tie people in and still expect them to pay for it. Not with the current contracts. There has to be a bit of give and get there.

Andy & Chris (13:53.229)


Andy & Chris (14:01.217)

Andy & Chris (14:06.452)
Yeah, no, I think you’re dead right. I think you’re thinking that there’s almost got to be a quick pre-choice, isn’t it? It’s like with the medics and it’s like, you spend that time, but there should be something where we’ll pay for you, but then the benefit of us paying for you is you have to commit to us. I think, yeah, it makes sense.

Rachel Evans (14:12.855)

Rachel Evans (14:22.674)
I think that would be very fair, definitely with the price of fees now, and you know, if that’s just fees, that’s not even living expenses, you’re still going to come out with some loans. If they paid all of that off, yeah, I think people, some people would bite their hand off. But equally, if you didn’t, then you pay the full fee. And then you’ve got a choice, or you could go, I’ll do two years and you know, two years, three years not and then I give this time to it.

Andy & Chris (14:31.563)

Andy & Chris (14:36.874)


Andy & Chris (14:47.344)
Yeah, yeah, which I think is fair. So then, so then roll forward to 2017, you’re now in private practice, and then rolling forward a bit further to 2020, you did your MSc in endodontics with a distinction.

Rachel Evans (14:49.619)
Rishi, call me.

Rachel Evans (14:56.607)

Rachel Evans (15:02.638)
I did, yes. Thank you.

Andy & Chris (15:04.16)
Well done, well done. Important. Do you, and you were saying about Dave Winkler and Bard, and was that kind of the star of this kind of idea about wanting to do excellent, high-end private dentistry? And is that kind of a lifelong learning process as well? That’s not like I do a couple of things and I’m there. Is that just something that’s gonna be with you?

Rachel Evans (15:17.706)
Yes, I knew that’s where it was going to be.

Rachel Evans (15:29.042)
It is because I always feel it’s never good enough. But he really did inspire, like he was incredibly inspirational. I’m so grateful that I met him so early on in my career because he really did set me on the right path. Because sometimes it is a little bit you can get attracted to the money and then you don’t want to progress. You know, you can be young, you can be earning an incredibly good wage and you just want that. Whereas I knew what I wanted to be eventually and where I wanted to be. So.

Andy & Chris (15:33.147)
Ha ha.

Rachel Evans (15:58.03)
the sacrifices to work upon that. So I was very thankful for that. And the reason I did ENDO MSC was because I was absolutely rubbish at ENDO, like God awful. It was so painful. And it wasn’t without trying. I’d still spend hours on it. And, you know, I would be there spending all of this time trying to do it. And then I’d be there taking my final x-ray and have my fingers crossed and I’d be praying to the ENDO gods. And then I’d be there with constantly with

Andy & Chris (16:00.582)

Andy & Chris (16:11.948)

Andy & Chris (16:23.955)
Ha ha

Rachel Evans (16:28.36)
computer, we’re looking at the x-ray and it was absolutely the most rubbish thing ever and you’re just like, it’s heart-sinking.

Andy & Chris (16:35.399)
So to solve that problem you did a master’s. So to challenge yourself.

Rachel Evans (16:37.95)
Yeah, like honestly Stevie Wonder could have done a better root canal than I was doing. It was that bad. It really was. Thanks for watching.

Andy & Chris (16:44.418)
But clearly, clearly your lecturers didn’t agree because he passed out with a distinction. So through that period you clearly got very good at it. Improved.

Rachel Evans (16:46.99)
I’m sorry.

Rachel Evans (16:54.678)
Well, I improved my critical thinking as well. I was able to write about it.

Andy & Chris (16:59.426)
It’s probably got the most improved students. I thought they’re not just a distinction Before we move on to the next stage of your Did you did you always have an ambition to own a dental practice as a young dentist was that something that you saw would Be in your future

Rachel Evans (17:02.642)

Rachel Evans (17:13.314)
Thank you.

Rachel Evans (17:17.773)
Absolutely not. I thought I was going to be happy being an associate. It really wasn’t something that I thought about seriously until I was pregnant, actually. Pregnancy. Some people say, you know, women go crazy during pregnancy. I’m sure both of you would not say that. But I went stoic. I didn’t go crazy. I went stoic. And that’s the line. That’s the storyline I’m sticking with for that.

Andy & Chris (17:27.939)
I was going to say, when did it change?

Andy & Chris (17:36.172)
No, of course not. No, no, not at all. No, no, definitely not. No.

Rachel Evans (17:47.618)
So my husband’s also a dentist and we were in a position where somebody suggested buying a practice to us. And I was probably about four or five months pregnant at the time. And then we thought, oh yes, we’ll be quite interested in that. And it fell through. And I think thankfully, because then COVID happened immediately. But it really got me thinking of practice ownership. And then I found out that I was having a little girl and I just had a real sense that I was

Andy & Chris (17:53.156)

Rachel Evans (18:15.646)
I need to be a role model for my daughter. The role of women has completely changed. We’re never going to go back to the kitchen and the bedroom and the homemaker ever again. Women are here and we’re here to stay and we’re progressing in careers. I really wanted to show her that you can be a mother and you can also have a career because I feel, in my opinion, a lot of the time, as soon as you get married, as soon as you can have a baby, you are somebody’s wife and somebody’s mother.

Andy & Chris (18:23.44)

Andy & Chris (18:36.365)

Rachel Evans (18:45.39)
and the you disappears. And to be honest, I quite liked Rachel. I thought Rachel was great. I was with Rachel for 33 years at the time of giving birth. I thought she was fantastic. And I didn’t want to lose her. So I find that it’s really important to me to show my daughter going, you can wear many hats. Maybe you could relate it to St. Patrick. It’s on St. Patrick’s Day in a month or so. And you can be the same person, but have different…

Andy & Chris (18:45.843)
Right, okay.

Andy & Chris (18:53.504)

Andy & Chris (19:07.722)

Rachel Evans (19:14.166)
different aspects to you but you can be the same person. Like that three leafed clover.

Andy & Chris (19:17.92)
Yeah. Hmm. I think that’s really powerful. And also I think it’s inspiring for other women in dentistry as well.

We were talking with some guys at the weekend and they were asking about how many women own practices and we said actually not as many as there should be because there’s an awful lot of young women who are qualifying as dentists and some women move on to owning practices but it’s still disproportionate. There still aren’t as many female principals. In a percentage terms there’s more women qualified as dentists. But we did also say we’ve seen probably one of the biggest changes apart from the age

of people is there are more women buying dental practices now. Yeah, there is an increase. So I think people like you and some of the other female principals out there do set a standard and they show to other people what is possible. Yeah. Which I think is hugely powerful. I think it’s hugely powerful. And are women owners, not women trying to be men owners? I think we were saying that sometimes we used to find that maybe the women thought they could only run a practice if they were like a man. But it was like, no. Be a woman. Because actually a woman.

Rachel Evans (20:00.481)
Oh that’s good. Thank you.

Rachel Evans (20:13.347)
Thank you.

Andy & Chris (20:25.815)
quite often manages a practice a bit more sensitively maybe sometimes.

Rachel Evans (20:30.84)
But sometimes it can be taken advantage of. It’s always a balance and I find myself, especially my younger days, I didn’t have that balance. And now it’s trying to keep that and be fair and still remain human but still have that authority.

Andy & Chris (20:33.601)
Ah, yes. Mm-hmm.

Rachel Evans (20:50.538)
But apparently, or so I’m told, you know, me and authority aren’t. I just have that natural authority. I think it’s when I stand with my hands on my hips all the time. They’re just glued there. Ha ha ha!

Andy & Chris (20:50.817)

Andy & Chris (21:00.584)
But isn’t it funny how… Isn’t that fear? But it’s funny the triggers for big life decisions. You know, buying a dental practice, sending a dental practice up is a big thing. But the trigger being that you wanted to be a better role model for your daughter, then perhaps you felt you might have been without being able to do that, to show her that you can have many facets to your life.

Rachel Evans (21:04.411)
I don’t care what it is, it works.

Rachel Evans (21:26.642)
Yeah, it was a really, really powerful urge. That and sausage rolls, sausage rolls, I had really liked them during pregnancy. And then it was just, no, I’m making light of it. It really was a finding out that I had a daughter. It really made me alter my life course. Ha ha ha.

Andy & Chris (21:41.4)
Oh, so I thought you were going to go serious on the sausage rolls. Yeah, the sausage rolls. Honestly, there was a great photo up there when you were saying, oh yeah, no, Greg’s, their top drawer. I love that. Not those vegan ones, not those vegetarian ones.

Rachel Evans (21:50.251)
Yeah, oh, I shouldn’t make lights. Oh, no, I shouldn’t make light. It was a very, very life changing aspect for me finding out I was having a daughter.

Andy & Chris (21:55.144)
Is it? Yeah.

It’s interesting that you felt that you had to be a practice owner to do that.

Rachel Evans (22:08.994)
I suppose it is, isn’t it?

Andy & Chris (22:10.664)
Not just, I’m not, but I’m just saying, you can be a super successful dentist and mum and wife and friend and all those sort of things, but in your head, you had that you wanted to own and run a dental practice.

Rachel Evans (22:25.124)
Yeah, I think it’s also, you know, the

You know, the future that a dental practice can give you, it’s building up something from scratch and then selling it and providing for the future. So if anything happens, you know, my daughter has something to fall back on. I’ve all we’ve my husband I’ve said, if she does go into dentistry, I’m not giving it to her. She’ll buy it off me or prize it off my cold dead hands. Should I be gifted it?

Andy & Chris (22:35.43)

Andy & Chris (22:40.195)


Andy & Chris (22:51.212)
I tell you what’s interesting is if you look at that wall I’m pointed at our wall that we have on when we have we exist to change lives to help our clients achieve their dreams And it’s you’re exactly that’s exactly what Biner practice means for you because your future is locked into that. Yeah, I think it’s great really. That’s a brilliant advert for us. Thanks So so rachel you

Rachel Evans (23:10.342)
Oh, thank you. Well, thank you for helping me, to be honest.

Andy & Chris (23:14.1)
Well, so I was going to say, so you had a failed attempt, didn’t work, and then you did my practice, which is amazing. And yeah, we were very fortunate, we were able to help you with that. So tell us about your practice. Where was it? What did it look like?

Rachel Evans (23:19.394)
I did.

Rachel Evans (23:26.862)
Well, it’s what it was, somebody described it and I’ve run with it ever since as a warm squat. So bear with me on that one. So it’s already an established dental practice, but it was very much a failing dental practice. So the chairs were there, the reception was there. It was decent looking, but very, very little patience. So my husband and I, it’s actually quite a distance away from where I live. I live in Brighton and the practice is in Buckinghamshire. So between High Wycombe.

Bekinsfield and Marlow. So I travel up and down and it was a really good deal for us. You know, we saw the potential. We were very excited. We knew that we could improve upon the services, definitely with our skills. And you know, it’s a real challenge that we were excited about. But also it wasn’t one that was going to financially cripple us. And especially when we were about, you know, it took a good 18 months to exchange on it.

Andy & Chris (24:01.801)

Andy & Chris (24:14.992)

Rachel Evans (24:21.602)
And then when we did, we thought, great, everything’s fine. It reminds me of when I was about to get married as well. And then the country changed and Liz Trust happened and then the banks, the interest rate went up. Because when I was about to get married, we were going to get married abroad and we were getting married in Italy and everything was fine and we’d agreed and we thought, great, this is brilliant. And then Brexit happened and overnight it went up 20%. So I seem to have that. I’m just thinking about it. Maybe it’s a curse on me or something.

Andy & Chris (24:33.355)
crazy time crazy time

Andy & Chris (24:45.959)
Oh wow.

Rachel Evans (24:52.479)
The interest rates went up. No, don’t. Interest rates went up, but it was still very affordable to us. You know, we’re not overstretched as well, which is a massive sigh of relief for both of us.

Andy & Chris (24:52.9)
I won’t ask you for your lottery numbers.

Andy & Chris (24:59.716)

Andy & Chris (25:04.672)
Yeah. And are you both actively clinically involved in the practice or did your husband support you with the business side and your clinical or how does that work?

Rachel Evans (25:13.438)
He definitely supports, he probably pays for us, if I’m honest, because he’s a wonderful clinician and he has a job down in Brighton. And obviously my daughter is at nursery and she’s starting school there in September, so one of us needs to be in that vicinity. And then I do the day to day clinical and managerial stuff. He comes in and tells us to do some things and we go, yes, yes. We do listen to him.

Andy & Chris (25:16.324)

Andy & Chris (25:37.648)
I was gonna say, do you then do them or just go yes, yes?

Rachel Evans (25:40.51)
Yes, yes. If they’re a good enough idea, we do it. But he does have a very much the background, the business side of running it. And we do have our meetings like such as marketing and so forth. And then he doesn’t place implants, but he will plan and restore implants. We’re trying to build that side. And that’s his baby in the practice of it. But if I’m honest, I don’t think we could work together. I know it’s a bit late saying that now we’ve got a practice together.

Andy & Chris (25:46.084)
Ha ha ha!

Andy & Chris (26:04.344)
but you’ll see.


Rachel Evans (26:10.194)
I think it’s quite nice, you know, he comes up and does a little bit of stuff, but then there’s still a bit of, you know, separateness. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (26:14.848)
There’s a bit of distance, isn’t there? What’s great is you’re making it work because a lot of people here, and you say we live in Brighton, but our practice in Buckinghamshire, which is like, that is just crazy. But clearly it does work for you. You know, and I think with remote management systems and other elements of how you run and manage your business, you don’t always need to be on the ground present, yet you can get there. It’s not that far that you can get there for a couple of days and work clinically.

Rachel Evans (26:28.246)

Rachel Evans (26:40.366)
Absolutely. I started 10, so I miss out that terrible M25 traffic. And then thankfully I’m able to stay over two nights a week. So I do four clinical diets and I have Wednesday off because then I don’t get to see my daughter in those two nights. So, you know, it’s trying to balance the business, growing the business, but also home life. So I’m not just a face on a mobile phone for her.

Andy & Chris (26:54.431)

Andy & Chris (26:59.279)

Andy & Chris (27:02.476)
Yeah. So you’ve owned the practice for nearly 18 months. So what’s it looking like now from when you took over the warm squat to where are you at now?

Rachel Evans (27:07.026)
Yeah, nearly a two months.

Rachel Evans (27:14.23)
Um, I gave being money sucking black hole. No, I’m joking. It is a little bit bad. No, it’s, you know, I really love it. I absolutely love owning a practice and I’ve got my vision in my head and we’re just slowly trying to build and it did have a bad reputation beforehand in the community. So we’re trying to build upon that. It’s just getting slowly and steadily busier. And then when we’ve got, you know, some money and some.

Andy & Chris (27:22.413)

Andy & Chris (27:27.539)
Ha ha!

Andy & Chris (27:37.22)

Andy & Chris (27:41.084)

Rachel Evans (27:45.963)
I would love to say a profit, but let’s just say when we have some money, then we are trying to redo certain things. So we’ve introduced the CBCT machine. We are in the process of just getting a new front door because I think that will really help. We’re going to have a glass one because it’s an old Victorian building. It’s an old church as well, so it’s like a solid black door.

Andy & Chris (27:54.86)

Andy & Chris (28:04.071)

Rachel Evans (28:08.322)
So trying to make it a little bit more welcoming and inviting. We’ve created like a TCO room and an upstairs lounge, but then we’ll eventually try and redecorate that. It’s got carpets, so we’ll take all of that out and kind of make it a bit more CQC suitable. And the last things to do are the surgeries. I’d love a new surgery and a new chair, but that’s for me, that’s not for the patients, to make the patients feel comfortable. So it’s just doing stuff that are patient-facing, first of all, and just improving upon that.

Andy & Chris (28:11.409)

Andy & Chris (28:16.203)
Oh well.

Andy & Chris (28:20.623)

Andy & Chris (28:29.6)
That’s right.

Andy & Chris (28:34.112)
But even so, Rachel, the things you’ve said that you spent money on, yeah, those aren’t cheap items. You know, CBCT, you know, converting a room to space for your team, getting your front door done. So I say even a new door is expensive. Yeah, I was going to say, so you’re clearly reinvesting back into your business for the long term, as opposed to just saying, I want to get money out on day one. You’re kind of saying, right, for this first couple of years, it will be hard, but we’re doing it for the long term.

Rachel Evans (28:39.671)

Rachel Evans (28:51.202)

Rachel Evans (28:59.781)
Absolutely. It’s a process, isn’t it? It’s a journey with it. And you know, you’ll probably never be finished. It’ll never be how I want it to be. But I think it’s about enjoying the journey and not the end result.

Andy & Chris (29:03.128)
Hmm. Hey, sir.

Andy & Chris (29:11.608)
Yeah, not getting too stressed about it. So you’re 18 months in, what’s been the easiest thing and the hardest thing of owning a practice?

Rachel Evans (29:20.174)
I think the easiest thing is a clinical dentistry, for sure. It’s actually what I’ve trained for. That’s it. I’ve trained for many years for that.

Andy & Chris (29:24.285)
It’s what you’re trained for, isn’t it? That’s the bit you’re trained for, yeah. Especially as she’s no longer Stevie Wonder of the endo world, which has made me laugh. I must have.

Rachel Evans (29:32.274)
No. I did have that reputation for a while. I know the patients always wonder when I put on the patient’s black glasses going, what’s she doing? Looking at me in horror.

Andy & Chris (29:39.167)
Stevie have a look.

Andy & Chris (29:51.24)
Songs in the key of life playing in the background. Sorry, only those of you of a certain age will know that Steve Wonder album. Brilliant album. Sorry, I digress. Sorry, sorry, Steve. I’ll just recap. So the easiest bit was clinical dentistry and the hardest bit was over to you, Rachel.

Rachel Evans (29:54.231)

Rachel Evans (30:01.027)
So that we digress, it’s always engaged.

Rachel Evans (30:10.574)
I think management, managing my time, managing the team as well, because it’s a very small team. I only started with Erica and I was so lucky to get Erica and for her to take that chance to come and work with me because you’re trying to recruit people and at the start it’s like, oh, I need to recruit somebody who’s going to do everything. They’re going to nurse, they’re going to be reception, receptionist as well.

Andy & Chris (30:29.774)

Rachel Evans (30:35.414)
they’re going to be a glorified cleaner because I’m a very, very messy person, which they will attest to. They will. My mother will also attest to that. It’s her biggest disappointment in me that I’m not a very tidy person. So, you know, they have to do everything. So it’s asking somebody to, you know, maybe take a chance on a, on a probably a secure job, maybe not so secure, the fact that they were looking around, but, you know.

Andy & Chris (30:45.764)
I’m out.

Rachel Evans (30:59.598)
very nine to five, yes, we’re going to have patients all day to come and take a chance on a day that could be absolutely empty and we’re trying to scramble for things to do for it. So I was very, very lucky and fortunate to find Erika, who’s been absolutely amazing. She is very, very natural with the patients. I’d be lost without her, which I don’t want her to know because then she’ll probably want to pay her rise with it. But she’s such a natural with the patients, which really, I find very complimentary for both of us because

Andy & Chris (31:06.319)

Andy & Chris (31:15.96)

Rachel Evans (31:28.31)
she can be so talkative and she can find out the smallest bit of detail and information of somebody where I keep doing that. And you know, she could come in going, and so and so is getting a divorce and then this died and then that happened and all of this. And I’m like, how do you know this? You’ve been chatting to them for five minutes. And then it allows me to get in there and do the dentistry. It really is. And then I took on Nagina as well, who’s an excellent nurse.

Andy & Chris (31:32.523)

Andy & Chris (31:45.812)
Yeah, it’s a skill. Real skill. Yeah.

Rachel Evans (31:55.562)
she really does put up with my messiness and gets everything sorted for me as well. So it’s working in a small team and trying to show, yes, I’m the leader of the team and the boss, but also because we’re so small enough, everybody has to work well together. Because if there’s one… I did hire… I got a bit panicked and hired a nurse too quickly, and I knew within a day of her working with me going, this is not going to work, and I had to get rid of her within two weeks. I just knew it wasn’t going to work.

Andy & Chris (32:02.125)

Andy & Chris (32:09.364)
Mocking. Everyone’s got a mocking together, yeah.

Andy & Chris (32:24.096)
Yeah. A fight fast is a really important thing. Yeah. It’s a good lesson to tell people.

Rachel Evans (32:24.978)
So that can be a very, very difficult part.

Yes, thankfully she left. She walked out in a half, so I didn’t even have to do it. I was really worried. I tried to, I tried to fire her and it was like breaking up with somebody. But you know when they go, I’m not kind of taking that for an answer and they go, oh, I’ll be better in all of this. And you’re going.

Andy & Chris (32:35.165)
Ah, even better.

Andy & Chris (32:42.744)
Did you say, it’s not you, it’s me? Did you do, it’s not you, it’s me?

Rachel Evans (32:47.082)
Well, somebody told me a really good, it was Bertie Napier told me to tell her you’re doing the job but not the role and I said that but then I just couldn’t finish it and I couldn’t break up with her and It was like really it was like one of those really awkward breakups We try to and then you’re like no, we’re still going out type of thing She was still there but then got into half the next day and walked out and sent me her resignation. I was like I’ll accept that It is

Andy & Chris (33:10.22)
Oh, so that worked well. Before you bought the practice, had you considered whether you had the non-clinical skills to be a practice owner? Or did you just buy it and thought, I’ll just work it out as I go?

Rachel Evans (33:23.97)
So we knew we didn’t have the business skills. My husband had owned a business. He’s more entrepreneurial than I am. He did window fitting before he became a dentist and he had his own little window fitting business. So he always had that more of a keen eye and aspect with it compared to me. I’m a bit happy-go-lucky, as you may be able to tell. So when we started it, we knew we need to act seriously and get done and…

and get a business head on ourselves. None of my family have ever been in business or anything associated with that, so there’s nobody to ask. So thankfully, I did a course with Rahul and Bhavna and they really changed my mindset. So my mindset was already in a way for when I was about to open the practice. And I really would recommend anybody to do a business course if they are thinking or they’re in the process of buying a practice to start doing it because…

Andy & Chris (34:03.629)
How about you?

Rachel Evans (34:20.042)
You have to think of a completely different way than being an associate. You really do. And they were, they really were wonderful. I’ve, I want to be Bafner when I grew up. I hope she hears this. I want to be her when I grow up because she is really fantastic.

Andy & Chris (34:24.311)

Have fun.

Andy & Chris (34:35.632)
Brilliant. And has it worked? Do you feel more confident and able to run the business now?

Rachel Evans (34:42.362)
I do. And it’s even just that communication because beforehand, if you had a difficult patient, you would just be like, oh, no, send it off to the principal or they’ll practice manager sort it out. And now the buck stops with me. So I’m now getting to be able to run stuff the way I want to. And one thing I’m very passionate about is, which it took a while for the girls to get on board with, is if somebody’s being rude or anything on the phone.

Andy & Chris (34:51.724)
Hmm Yeah

Rachel Evans (35:07.102)
stop them coming into the practice. I’ll be more upset if you let them come in and have an exam with me because then I have to try and get rid of them than if you just stop it at the phone call and go, no, don’t speak to me like that. I don’t think it’s going to be suitable or anything like that. It’s giving them that autonomy going, if there’s a red flag or anything, please feel free to deal with it. Whereas I know some practices are like, never let a patient walk out. They always must be happy. If anything’s wrong, then it’s our fault and your fault and we have to take that.

Andy & Chris (35:10.884)

Andy & Chris (35:27.69)

Rachel Evans (35:35.114)
you know, it’s changing that mentality with them. So you definitely with communication itself.

Andy & Chris (35:35.499)

Hmm. I think it’s spot on. I think it’s spot on as well. I think it’s spot on. I everybody says oh, yeah The customers most important customers the patient’s most important and actually I think your team members are the most important people because they’re the people that Isn’t there it’s if because if they’re not if they’re not treated in into the highest level possible Then you’re not going to do a good service, but also They’re not going to turn back up for work tomorrow. You’re not supportive. I know No

Rachel Evans (35:49.75)
Richard Branson.


Rachel Evans (36:03.006)
Exactly. And patients will pick up on a bad atmosphere. Like I know everything things can happen, but yeah, it’s just, they will detect that. Yeah, it is.

Andy & Chris (36:07.268)
Yeah, just like your kids, isn’t it? Kids pick mum or dad Yeah, yeah so Like like you need anything else to do. Um in your life. You’re now president of the bapd as well Which is exciting. So what’s the what’s the plan for your for your duration of the presidency? Like we did bad Bapped it could be bapped couldn’t it? Yeah

Rachel Evans (36:22.554)
Yes, I am.

Rachel Evans (36:33.887)
Oh, I’ve been bapped. I might try and use that now. I’ll be bapped. You know, I’m so fortunate. I’m so fortunate to belong to the association. You know, again, even that, because I suppose beforehand.

Andy & Chris (36:38.144)
Yeah, you should say that. Ah, the president of ABAPT. What? Oh, very good. I’ll tell you what you did there.

Rachel Evans (36:53.294)
in dentistry I was quite isolated because it is isolating and then suddenly I was in like the BAPD community, I was thinking of buying a practice, there’s so many practice owners there that if you’ve got a question you can email people or WhatsApp them and you’ve got like a plethora of answers and people willing to help you. But I suppose for the future of BAPD I think we really need to, it’s the regulator isn’t it? It’s just the problems that regulator throws up.

Andy & Chris (36:56.728)

Andy & Chris (37:20.212)

Rachel Evans (37:22.25)
It’s just, oh, where do you begin to describe it? You know, we’ve just had so many people being struck off because of bank issues that the bank have admitted to fault, you know, with trying to register. We’ve had Smile Direct Club and their remit is to protect the public and they’re doing no such of a thing. But they always just seem to be one bit beyond that law, don’t they? So I think it’s trying to get a fairer regulator. I think that’s what in my presidency I would like to.

Andy & Chris (37:25.658)
Ha ha

Andy & Chris (37:45.466)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Rachel Evans (37:50.394)
You know, we’re never going to do it in a year, but to try and attempt just to show them going, look, we are here, we see what you’re doing. Come on. I want to poke the bear.

Andy & Chris (38:01.964)
You want a balanced regulator, don’t you? You want a balanced regulator, I think, as opposed to it never quite feels like that, does it? We’re not clinicians, but just… And what needs to happen? No, no, no. But genuinely, what needs to happen? Because it’s a two-sided thing, isn’t it? I’m sure on their side they’re going, oh, yes, but, da-da-da, and they’ve got their points. How do you kind of…

Rachel Evans (38:04.237)

Rachel Evans (38:08.959)
It doesn’t.

So I think, yeah. I want to poke the bear. I don’t want it to be like the revenant.

Andy & Chris (38:28.636)
make progress on our side effectively representing the profession.

Rachel Evans (38:34.318)
I think that the GDC need to understand where we’re coming from and our issues. It’s not going to change overnight, but I read this fantastic book. It was all about mindset. And they did an experiment in the US. It was actually in a hospital in the US. And it was on whistleblowing. And they had, like I say, the good team that they all love each other and they all communicate really well. And the rubbish team who don’t and they’re all toxic and you know…

bitch about people and whatnot. And they said, you know, what’s whistle blowing and where are the mistakes going to be? And they actually found that more mistakes were reported in the good team than the bad team. And they were very surprised about that going, oh, but that’s a bad culture, surely that would be. When they delve down into it, what they realized was that in the good team, they were willing to express their mistakes and explain their mistakes. And therefore patient safety improved and things got rectified and there was like a no blame.

And they termed the, it was a phrase, the psychological safety net. And I think we are dying for that in dentistry because we don’t have a psychological safety net, not with the GDC as the regulator, even the CQC and some of the things that they’re asking for, you know, they’re always pushing the goalposts, NHS England as well. Everybody’s always pushing the goalposts with it. And I think it then makes us as a profession retreat in and become very, very defensive. And then that’s.

Andy & Chris (39:58.904)
Yeah. Yep. Mm.

Rachel Evans (40:00.79)
bad news for our patients. So if the GDC could do one thing, I think it would be working within the fitness practice and just having that psychological safety net to go, yes, they’re vicious people. You know, you should be innocent until proven guilty rather than guilty as soon as anything comes in. And I think that would help.

Andy & Chris (40:17.512)
Yeah, definitely. It’s a little bit like um

It’s a bit like Matthew Sire and his black box thinking in the arrow industry. If anything goes wrong, that failure gets shared around the whole industry, so everybody learns quickly and in real time. Whereas I don’t think there’s an open culture in dentistry where people would be happy to share their failures for fear of reprisal from the regulator. I think the GDC just assumes all dentists are dodgy. That’s sort of the way I feel in a way. They don’t, the common denominator, you know,

Rachel Evans (40:24.962)

Rachel Evans (40:33.755)

Andy & Chris (40:51.366)
so low that so many people trip over it. I just find it really hard when you look at how they’ve supported and inverted commas the profession over the years. It’s been amazing really. You know, we used to, sorry, we used to work in banks and banks used to do exception reporting. So the assumption was that everything was okay unless there was an exception. But it seems to be almost the other way around that everything is not so great.

Rachel Evans (41:06.759)
It is.

Andy & Chris (41:20.856)
which is the wrong mindset.

Rachel Evans (41:22.9)
It’s true. And you know, the GDC there, they say they’re there to protect the profession, but yet they let Smile Direct Club go. And then we highlighted it. They were like, well, that’s outside our remit. And it’s like, oh, I’m sorry. Well, what public and what patients are you there to protect then? If not that, is it not the act of dentistry? But apparently to them it’s not. No. It is.

Andy & Chris (41:30.241)

Andy & Chris (41:37.568)
Yeah, yeah, it’s mad. Frustrating, very frustrating. On a more positive note, what does success look like for you?

Rachel Evans (41:55.466)
Well, I first thought it would be like rolling around on a bed of money, but I suppose, you know, I can’t say that. You know, one penny coins would be quite uncomfortable. Doesn’t have an E on this show. I suppose success would be contentment to feel like, yeah, I don’t need to do any more.

Andy & Chris (41:55.768)
President of the BAPT, mate.

Andy & Chris (41:59.901)
and make it rain.

Andy & Chris (42:05.865)
Oh, no.

Andy & Chris (42:10.448)
Ah, I was about to say something, I’ve changed my mind.

Andy & Chris (42:16.7)

Rachel Evans (42:25.086)
I don’t need to improve. And I don’t think we’re ever going to be content with our lot. There’s always going to be something else, something else to do. But I think, yeah, true success would be contentment. I don’t need to earn more. I don’t need to do more. I don’t need to get more. I don’t need to be more. I’m happy.

Andy & Chris (42:27.096)

Andy & Chris (42:36.046)

Andy & Chris (42:40.461)
I think it’s that sense of what’s enough, isn’t it? What does enough look like? And then you kind of just say, well, okay, that’s good. I mean, you could always get more, but enough is still a good place to be.

Rachel Evans (42:43.628)

Rachel Evans (42:52.638)
Yeah, I don’t think I’ll ever be that. No. Ha ha ha. That’s it.

Andy & Chris (42:55.892)
practice some chanting some prayer bowls one of those things where you let them rrrr

Rachel Evans (43:03.039)

Rachel Evans (43:10.512)
Was this conversation not serious enough?

Rachel Evans (43:25.162)
My first thought would be I’d love to be a fly on the wall on those like dental nurses forums Can’t they but you know, you have to be a dental nurse to get onto it It just can’t be like a little lurker, but my goodness what you hear that goes on there. That’ll be interesting But a more profound answer I suppose You know, I know I’m late to the game and I’ve just gotten into Ted lasso I love Ted lasso

Andy & Chris (43:52.116)
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Rachel Evans (43:54.21)
And I read a really good book about a year ago called Legacy by James Kerr. And it was about the, the All Blacks team. And I do love a bit of rugby, big Ireland fan, just beat France. What up? And just to hear their halftime talks and like, you know, they’re, I suppose their pregame talks with like the coach and the manager, the halftime ones, how they, what’s being said in that to turn their mindset around. I’d really love to, to listen in on that.

Andy & Chris (43:58.973)
Mmm, the All Blacks. Yeah, it’s amazing, amazing.

Andy & Chris (44:16.701)

Andy & Chris (44:24.416)
Yeah, now that’d be fascinating after you listening in to the Dental Nurses Forum. I’d learn the Hucka. Actually, you should do that every morning in the office. And our follow-up question for you is you can meet somebody. You can sit down with a coffee, a glass of water, a big glass of red wine or a beer or whatever you fancy. Who are you going to sit down and have a conversation with? You can’t say Stevie Wonder.

Rachel Evans (44:29.228)
Oh no. Learn the high-

Rachel Evans (44:33.923)
Huh, babe.

Rachel Evans (44:49.282)
Arnold Schwarzenegger. I love him. I love Arnold Schwarzenegger. I’m so inspired by him. I’ve listened to his autobiography, his new book, his seven habits. I was gutted that I didn’t get to go and listen to him in London when he was there at the end of last year. He was. He’s just such an inspirational figure. Again, his mindset. I’m very big into mindset. I think Bavna got me into that, so I’ll blame her. But just, I always thought he’s this big muscle bind guy.

Andy & Chris (44:52.028)
Oh, okay. Oh, aren’t they?

Andy & Chris (45:04.482)
Oh, he was at the Albert Hall, wasn’t he? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy & Chris (45:11.363)

Rachel Evans (45:18.73)
You know, on TV he’s the Terminator, he was in Predator, True Lies, big muscle bound, idiot goon type of person. But he is incredibly intelligent. He’s a self-made man. He was a millionaire even before he went into Hollywood and he always had like a vision board going, that’s what I’m going to be. And you know, he got himself Mr. Bodybuilding, he was Mr. Europa.

Andy & Chris (45:23.044)

Rachel Evans (45:44.03)
Oh, what was the, what’s the big world one called? It’s just, skip my mind. Mr. Universe so many times and he saw it and he visioned it.

Andy & Chris (45:46.292)
Mr. Universe. Yeah. Which I think is quite a bold statement, isn’t it? For a solitary planet in the universe, to claim Mr. Universe is quite bold, I think. Fair play. That’s Americans, they’re all winning the world series baseball. Yeah.

Rachel Evans (45:52.91)
Yeah. Oh, only America. Yeah, only America. And, you know, he just visioned that and it came true. And then when he wanted to be a movie star, he’s like, and they were going, you can’t do it. You’ve got a too silly name. You’ve got too thick an accent. He’s like, I’m going to be a leading man. And he did it. And then being a governor, he’s like, I pictured it and I could see myself sitting in the office and what tie I was wearing and what I was saying. And I did it.

Andy & Chris (46:17.569)

Rachel Evans (46:19.658)
And he was just very much a mindset going, I can do this and this is how I’m going to do it. So really inspirational. So definitely. Yeah. Arnie. That’s it. I’ll be back. I might have to get that on the website.

Andy & Chris (46:27.913)
Hence the reference to I’ll be BAPT. Yes. I’ll be BAPT.

Only bad. But I think you’re right. And like you say, I think in the early days, people used to kind of scoff at him a bit when he was acting. Because I think when he started, the acting was a bit wooden and he certainly grew into it. But you don’t, you know, lead the world in bodybuilding, acting and then become governor of California if you haven’t got something special about you. By luck, by chance. Yeah. No.

Rachel Evans (46:44.918)

Rachel Evans (46:55.222)
No. Like, he had never won an Oscar. He was never the best actor. But he didn’t have to be. He was just perfect for the roles.

Andy & Chris (47:01.428)
No, no, he chose the roles that he was supposed to change but also he made he made hollywood a lot of money kindergarten cop I like that film

Rachel Evans (47:07.398)
He did. Oh, it was a brilliant one. Well, actually in The Terminator, he said he read for the role of Reese. And, you know, that was the role that they offered him because it’s the main lead role. It’s the main male role after Sarah Connor. And he was just talking to them and he was like, no, it’s actually The Terminator and it should be this. And then eventually they went, you need to be The Terminator to James Cameron. And he was like, no, I want to be a leading man. And they’re going, you need this. And he just went, he said it felt right. And he said, yeah, fine, I’ll do it.

Andy & Chris (47:14.714)
Oh, did he?

Andy & Chris (47:19.725)

Andy & Chris (47:38.08)
Wow, brilliant.

Rachel Evans (47:38.314)
And it’s made one of the biggest franchises, you know, cinema history. Like who doesn’t know The Terminator? Although I did prefer Judgment Day. I’ll have to say that. I’m a more of a Judgment Day person than the original.

Andy & Chris (47:42.658)
Oh, there must be one of his biggest roles. Yeah, yeah.

Andy & Chris (47:50.164)
Oh, okay. Yeah. So you’re on science fiction here, actually, which Andy’s and is not really in science I know what you’re talking about and is and he’s gone glazed over. Yeah, I’ve heard of the Terminator It’s a great film They got a bit silly though later on some of the films

Rachel Evans (47:59.982)
Judgment Day!

Rachel Evans (48:06.014)
Oh, they did. But Judgment Day, that opening scene, you know, Leon cut version. Oh, that was good. Yeah. And Linda Hamilton on her shoulders. It’s all about that, passing the day.

Andy & Chris (48:11.876)
This is good. Ha ha ha. Mate Joel, it’s always… Yeah, yeah, it’s good films. It’s good, it’s not quite all science fiction, so there’s no aliens. Right. Well, no there’s not, it’s just in the future, but don’t even go down there, that’s fine. Oh, I think you’ve lost me. I’ll stick with True Lies. That was a good film. Yeah, that was a good film actually, that was a good film. Yeah, absolutely outstanding. Oh, was she in it? I don’t remember. Ha ha ha.

Rachel Evans (48:27.753)
He’ll be bopped.

Jamie Lee Curtis, you couldn’t ask for more, she was brilliant in that.

Rachel Evans (48:37.86)

Andy & Chris (48:39.996)
Rachel, it’s been an absolute joy. It always is. Whenever we meet you at an event, you’re always so much fun. You’ve got so much energy. And I think you just got a great perspective on life. I really do. That’s brilliant. I love the fact that you’ve done the whole podcast with your seatbelt on. Yeah. That’s what I was thinking. I was thinking, I hope you’re not driving and I realized there was nothing moving.

Rachel Evans (48:49.831)
Oh, thank you guys.

Rachel Evans (48:54.21)
Safety first. I’m gonna make a re-nistin’ in. Safety first. Oh!

Andy & Chris (49:01.54)
No, but it’s for a quick escape. She’s a busy lady. Once we finish, she doesn’t want to put her seatbelt on when we’re finished. Well, there’s marginal gains. Yes! Marginal gains. Right, bye! A one percent gain. Soon as we finish, you can be on the way back to Brighton. Rachel, thank you very much. Thank you very much. It’s been really good fun talking to you. No, not at all. Look after yourself and hopefully we’ll see you soon.

Rachel Evans (49:05.026)
That’s it.

Rachel Evans (49:08.714)
I don’t have time for that.

Rachel Evans (49:14.734)
There we go. Thank you very much for having me.

Thank you. Thank you so much, guys. Take care, and I.

Andy & Chris (49:23.62)
Cheers. Let’s go. All right. Ciao.

Andy & Chris (49:29.158)
Absolutely wonderful. That was brilliant. Thank you very much. No, no, let it roll.

Rachel Evans (49:30.358)
You might want to edit some things out. I don’t want any letters from pharmacists. I don’t want any letters.


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