Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Sam Jethwa
Episode Release Date – Monday 16 October 2023
Andy & Chris:
How are you doing? You good? I am very good. Thank you very much. Looking forward to this one. I am. I am. Should be fun. Yeah, yeah. This is somebody who I’ve seen and we’ve passed at many events and we’ve only passed a few words. So I’m really looking forward to understanding more about his career. I hope they were nice words. Of course they were nice words. They were always nice words. Otherwise I suppose it wouldn’t be on. Exactly. They were rude. No, that would be fun. So ladies and gentlemen, today we have Dr Sam Jethwa joining us and Sam is a principal and founder of Bespoke Smile Cosmetic and Implant Clinic in Marlow, Buckinghamshire. founder of the bespoke Smarlet Advanced Dentistry and Academy, which will be interesting to find out more about, and also Vice President of the British Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry and will be moving into the role of President in a couple of years’ time. Flair, what a massive business card. I was going to say, there’s a lot going on, Sam. How are you?
Sam Jethwa:
I’m very well, thank you so much for having me.
Andy & Chris:
No, not at all. We’ve got a lot to get through. I mean, I’m sitting here thinking this might have to be a part one and part two. He, he, he. There’s a lot going on. There’s a lot to get to. Sam, just before we kind of get to the dental bit of which there’s lots of facets, what do we need to know about you from your younger years? When you were young as a kid, how did your life get shaped as a young Sam?
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, it’s not something you often stop and think about, is it?
Andy & Chris:
No.
Sam Jethwa:
But I guess every little thing that happened probably shaped some way as to how
Andy & Chris:
Hmm?
Sam Jethwa:
I am, personality or what things I do or decisions I make. As a kid, I was, I’m an only child, I don’t have siblings. So how that shaped me, I don’t know. I guess I do value relationships, I value loyalty. I’m very close to friends. who from school, et cetera, were still very close. So maybe there’s an aspect for friends being family in some ways.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
But there’s also probably, I think, comes from that is a sort of fierce independence and a lack of willingness or wantingness to rely on anyone or anything.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
What that really has done for me is that I’m in control of where my future lies. And so wherever I want it to go, that’s down to me and not down to anyone else. think that’s probably been quite a big driver for me in my career especially.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm to be sporty at school or anything like that
Sam Jethwa:
No, not at all. That’s terrible, sport. The one thing I could do sports wise was I was not bad at cross country and stuff like that, like long distance.
Andy & Chris:
Okay.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, but not, you know, not sports. There was absolutely not a single sport that I could do and be good at.
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Sam Jethwa:
There was no talent in that aspect. Not bad. It’s
Andy & Chris:
Did
Sam Jethwa:
probably
Andy & Chris:
you try them
Sam Jethwa:
not
Andy & Chris:
though? Did you give
Sam Jethwa:
terrible.
Andy & Chris:
them a go?
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, of course. The schools I went to, there’s always a games afternoon or whatever and you’d go and you’d play and you’d have to do whatever’s on. Football I was terrible at. Rugby
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
I didn’t do at school. Tennis I wasn’t bad at. And then in my secondary school we had things like horse riding and stuff which actually was quite interesting and I wasn’t
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Sam Jethwa:
bad
Andy & Chris:
I
Sam Jethwa:
at
Andy & Chris:
think
Sam Jethwa:
that.
Andy & Chris:
so.
Sam Jethwa:
But then you need a horse, don’t you, and you need somewhere to take
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Sam Jethwa:
you.
Andy & Chris:
it’s true. It’s a useful thing to have.
Sam Jethwa:
It wasn’t really one that got any further after that. But no, sports wasn’t the thing. But I come from a musical family. So, well,
Andy & Chris:
Ah.
Sam Jethwa:
my dad. My dad is a singer. Didn’t make a full-time career out of it, but definitely a part-time career out of that. Albums, Indian music, has a band, and has been a great friend.
Andy & Chris:
I love that he just did a couple of albums.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
How many other people do you know? My dad did no albums whatsoever, Sam, at all.
Sam Jethwa:
taking me around the world with that. So that I think was assumed that I would have some kind of natural musical talent
Andy & Chris:
I will.
Sam Jethwa:
and I think I thought and we all thought that I did for quite a long time until we realised actually I probably didn’t but through that…
Andy & Chris:
Was that family being polite? Like some of those people get through to X-Factor. Do you know you get people who don’t get an X-Factor and they’re terrible and their family have told them they’re really good. Was that
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, no
Andy & Chris:
you?
Sam Jethwa:
one’s
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
told them that they’re not very good, you know, and they’re in denial and delusional about it. I think that probably was the case and the people that knew that I wasn’t very good didn’t say anything. And my parents just were totally in denial about it because
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Sam Jethwa:
how can you not be good at it?
Andy & Chris:
Was
Sam Jethwa:
But
Andy & Chris:
this
Sam Jethwa:
you know.
Andy & Chris:
singing or playing something?
Sam Jethwa:
playing instruments. So I did get to grade eight saxophone. So,
Andy & Chris:
Oh.
Sam Jethwa:
you know, I did manage that but it’s not natural to me. I did some piano, grade five or six and then clarinet, guitar. So I thought I did quite a lot but it wasn’t really natural to me. You
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Sam Jethwa:
know, I worked hard and I didn’t practice a lot. So there wasn’t that either. So, you know, to take those two things out, what’s actually left?
Andy & Chris:
Ha! Did you get good grades?
Sam Jethwa:
There was a struggle, I used to have
Andy & Chris:
Ha!
Sam Jethwa:
extra tuition on that as well, so that wasn’t really going for me. But
Andy & Chris:
When
Sam Jethwa:
somehow…
Andy & Chris:
we get onto your successes, this is going to make it even more remarkable. But the
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
girls loved him. Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, the interesting thing at school, I mean, talking about academics, I was never really very academic either, but it wasn’t bad. You know, I’m talking about comparing yourself to kids in a school where everybody’s quite good. Right. So so I was privately educated because I was the only one and they could afford to do that for me. If it were two of us, that wouldn’t have been possible. So I’m lucky in that aspect. So so that I think helped me. But it was I was surrounded by people that were very clever. And so getting A-stars was quite normal. So if you get the A, you’re not you’re not really doing very
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
well. I was kind of there. So relatively speaking, yes, I probably was on probably the top few percent in terms of academics, but not in the environment where I was. And my natural sort of academic interest lied in things like history, English, the humanities, never really interested in science whatsoever. hated chemistry, terrible at math. But what do you need to do get into dental school, you need chemistry, biology,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
one other. So yeah, I just kind of had to do the
Andy & Chris:
So
Sam Jethwa:
things
Andy & Chris:
when
Sam Jethwa:
I
Andy & Chris:
did you decide to be a dentist?
Sam Jethwa:
at age 11.
Andy & Chris:
age 11.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Which I must say I find remarkable because when you said that Yeah, we had a sort of an exchange before and you said and it wasn’t just 11 you wanted to be a dentist at 11 you want to become an innovative cosmetic dentist
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
when I was 11 I was playing tennis with my mate Gary I had no idea what I was riding a bike Enjoying life and being a kid and you’ve already worked out that you don’t just want to be a dentist You’ve actually gone down a particular path from 11 and what’s even more incredible is it’s happened
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Which is, which is… And out of nowhere really. What, why? Why, why did you choose a dentist?
Sam Jethwa:
It’s very odd, isn’t it, for an 11-year-old to think that’s what I want to
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Sam Jethwa:
do.
Andy & Chris:
especially when your dad’s singing. You know, did you have any family that were dentists or…
Sam Jethwa:
No, none. My mum works and still does soon to retire in medical education. So being around doctors was quite a normal thing for me. And that put me off entirely, totally not what
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha ha.
Sam Jethwa:
I wanted to do. So I knew what I didn’t want in that aspect in terms of medicine. And there was a there was there were dentists around, not related, but there was
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
a who whose grandkids were studying to become a dentist. You might know of Shamik Popat. He’s quite well known.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
industry.
Andy & Chris:
Yep.
Sam Jethwa:
So when I was nine years old, he was at King’s with his brother,
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Sam Jethwa:
and they were both just qualified and they moved into their grandma’s house, which is a bit of a bit of a easier commute to the university than where their parents were living. So that I saw him graduate and that was sort of an inspiration. I was about nine at the time. And then my dad had a friend who was a dentist and I just
Andy & Chris:
I bet that makes your meat feel old when you remind him that you were nine.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, exactly. He graduated. He was doing his VT and I
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Sam Jethwa:
was nine years old. And so, yeah, but it’s great because now we see each other and we’re
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
both in the same industry and it’s brilliant. So, I was exposed to things, but it was those TV shows like Ten Years Younger and stuff that I
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Sam Jethwa:
just…
Andy & Chris:
Oh, yeah
Sam Jethwa:
11 year old, he used to love watching those things. And the dental bit for me, weirdly, was the most fascinating. And so that’s where it came from. So that’s
Andy & Chris:
I think it
Sam Jethwa:
where.
Andy & Chris:
was Rahul and Ash, wasn’t it? I think Rahul and Ash were one of the early pioneers of
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
that, weren’t
Sam Jethwa:
maybe,
Andy & Chris:
they?
Sam Jethwa:
and I remember the guy in Knightsbridge, Serenza, in Knightsbridge, I’ve
Andy & Chris:
Surinder,
Sam Jethwa:
watched
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
that one a lot. I think maybe the Extreme Makeover before that, I
Andy & Chris:
vote.
Sam Jethwa:
did, I’d missed that one, may have been just before. But yeah, so then I, yeah, it was kind of dentistry, and then definitely the, right, I want to be able to make those dramatic changes for
Andy & Chris:
Well…
Sam Jethwa:
people, because it just looked incredible and hard to believe that you could do something like that. As you, I think, because I focused that on that since the age of 11 then, everything I did in terms of the choices at school or whatever in terms of moving forward into being 14, 15, 16 and doing extracurricular activities or building your UCAS CV and all that, you know, you start at kind of like the 16 year old age on all that stuff. Everything was geared towards going into dental school. So the focus was there and I think that just meant that I didn’t really have any other distraction in terms of what do I want to
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Sam Jethwa:
do. decision and obviously
Andy & Chris:
But
Sam Jethwa:
lots of work experience.
Andy & Chris:
yeah, but what’s incredible there is we’ve talked before about the pressure that we put teenagers under to make these life decisions. You
Sam Jethwa:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
know, when you’re, you know, it’s quite often you’re 13, 14, 15 and they’re asking you to make these, you know, subject choices that are going to determine which degree you do, which career you’re going to have. So for you to have known the answers to that is quite unusual because lots of people don’t and
Sam Jethwa:
You
Andy & Chris:
they
Sam Jethwa:
don’t
Andy & Chris:
just
Sam Jethwa:
always
Andy & Chris:
fall
Sam Jethwa:
get
Andy & Chris:
into
Sam Jethwa:
it right,
Andy & Chris:
something.
Sam Jethwa:
do you? You don’t
Andy & Chris:
No,
Sam Jethwa:
always
Andy & Chris:
no,
Sam Jethwa:
get it right.
Andy & Chris:
not at all.
Sam Jethwa:
I could have thought that’s what I wanted, and then I quite easily have got it wrong. So we are picking things far too early, which
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
isn’t what other countries do. But
Andy & Chris:
Hmm,
Sam Jethwa:
yeah, there we are.
Andy & Chris:
but
Sam Jethwa:
Maybe that’s a wider
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Sam Jethwa:
conversation in terms
Andy & Chris:
yeah
Sam Jethwa:
of our engagement system and how many people drop out of careers and don’t
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
follow the group because of how
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
early we have to pick.
Andy & Chris:
And it’s expensive and time consuming as well to go through, particularly with dentistry, you know, five years at dental school. It’s a huge investment in many ways to then find that perhaps it isn’t your true choice.
Sam Jethwa:
I wonder how
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
many people because of that just stick with it when they’re really
Andy & Chris:
Yeah
Sam Jethwa:
unhappy.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, which is sad, isn’t it? To think that you probably go so far down a path don’t you that you just yeah, there’s no point From a probably a an emotional point of view and probably a cost point of view of saying actually i’ve had enough especially if you can sort of get away with it. Does that make sense? You know, if you can put on a brave face and just earn some decent money and I think in my experience, most dentists I talk to, I sense they genuinely enjoy the clinical treatment of patients. I think lots of the other stuff that goes around it, you know, the bureaucracy, CQC, GDC, managing people, all that is hard work. But the genuine, when you have a hand piece and a patient in the chair, it’s unusual I speak to a dentist who still doesn’t get a buzz from treating patients.
Sam Jethwa:
shame we treat patients and we don’t treat teeth. That’s the thing. So then all
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
that, we can’t cut out. But
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
also when you go into a vocational thing, you also feel like that’s your, you are a dentist, that’s you, that defines
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
you. And then you kind of have to really, really think outside the box and become, re-educate yourself in terms of entrepreneurialism or marketing or branding or learning a new skill.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
You are a dentist, that defines you. So then you think there’s nothing else I could do. What would I do? Which
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Sam Jethwa:
is why GDC stuff stresses us out so much because it’s sort of like, well, if I lose… me because that’s defining me what do I have left which
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
isn’t really the truth is it we you’ve
Andy & Chris:
No,
Sam Jethwa:
put
Andy & Chris:
no.
Sam Jethwa:
your mind to it and you become a dentist where you could put your mind to something else and become something else but
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
it’s that block that going into vocations does put on you and
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
now you’re having just had a daughter a week ago obviously the discussions around it what would you encourage your kid to do
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
encourage them to do dentistry and I think you know it actually kind of in terms of
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Sam Jethwa:
your own potential when you go into something vocational because do you think that’s all you can do? With
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Sam Jethwa:
reality isn’t the case because you can do what all sorts of things in the industry or outside of it
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
but sometimes I think it’s just that’s what you feel that defines you.
Andy & Chris:
You almost internally brainwash yourself, don’t you? So that’s the only thing you can deliver. And we will come on to more about your own career, but you know, you obviously, there’s a clinical aspect to what you do. There’s an educational aspect to what you do. There’s working with an association to further the profession. So like you say, it’s quite broad, but you have to have the kind of the attitude and the desire to want to explore beyond the patient, the patient in the chair. So your first exposure to the profession followed a family trip. to Kenya?
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
How did that come about and how did that kind of further spark your interest?
Sam Jethwa:
Well, my mum’s side of the family are all from Kenya. So my grandma, my mum’s mum, was actually born in Kenya. So we’re going back over about 100 years of Indian origin, but in East Africa. And so we would go to Kenya every summer. And my auntie, my mum’s sister, has just retired, but she had her own school in Nairobi. And so I was at the age of, I think it was 15 or 14, something around that. time. Mum said right, well the summer you’re just going to be spending over there with your auntie and my other uncle her brother there as well and they’re gonna take you to work with them and you’re gonna learn about whatever they’re doing and all sorts of things and there’s you know and you can do what you want to do but it’s all it’s there to for you to learn right what life is like in a different country but also other professions. So so then I yeah I went I went and they used to take me to my uncle did really well from nothing. He built a property portfolio in Nairobi and a hotel, had a jukebox business which was big at the time before Spotify and everything killed it.
Andy & Chris:
Hehe.
Sam Jethwa:
Also in bars and whatnot. So lots of different things.
Andy & Chris:
Oh what an entrepreneur.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, and that was
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
a big inspiration to me actually, because no one in my family in the UK had ever achieved anything like that. Everybody had a job and I was like, wow, you know, he’s made his own job. I think that’s
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
quite incredible and done so well. And my auntie had her own school, so she wasn’t just a teacher, started as a teacher. Husband was a civil engineer and then they built, he built her a school, which then she became the headmistress of. And then they started with a nursery and built another floor and then it became all the way.
Andy & Chris:
Wow, hey. What an incredible couple.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, so I had these inspirational people around me who didn’t themselves believe to be any kind of an inspiration, but they’re just going about their lives.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, doing their own thing.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, shaped me quite a bit actually. And my aunt said to me, well, you’re interested in dentistry, there’s a dentist in our local area, why don’t you just go and spend a week there? I know her. So I spent a week at this community clinic in Nairobi in a really deprived part of town. It was quite eye-opening. And then I did a similar thing in the UK, of course, when you’re old enough to do work experience, and the difference was huge. But it just solidified it again for me that, yes, this is what I want to do, even after having seen the two different ends, the
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Sam Jethwa:
private end in a Western country versus somewhere like a community clinic in Africa. It was, yeah, it was like, right, the difference is making to people, relatively speaking,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
is still big enough that I want to be able to do that for people. And that was
Andy & Chris:
That’s
Sam Jethwa:
what
Andy & Chris:
what
Sam Jethwa:
it
Andy & Chris:
I was
Sam Jethwa:
was.
Andy & Chris:
thinking is, is you probably were changing people’s lives very differently. But you’re still making an impact, aren’t you? You’re still
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
changing and helping and whatever. It’s fascinating. I remember that thing with that guy, he was that guy, very loud, Ian, about, was it Tanzania or something? I want to preach to him. I mean, you look at how many, how many patients or potential patients there are per dentist. and then
Sam Jethwa:
Bye.
Andy & Chris:
it must be similar to sort of Nairobi in a way. There’s so many people and so few dentists that the level of dentistry you do is really just recovery, almost like getting people out of issues. I think it’s brilliant. A great juxtaposition really of showing two different ways, isn’t it?
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, it was. It was a want and want in the UK where, I mean, my dad’s friend was an NHS dentist, but did some composite work at the time when it was quite kind of new and all that sort
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
of thing. It’s quite innovative. And then, and then you have in, it was a want kind of treatment. And then you have in Africa where I was observing that as a total need thing.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
Ultimately, as you say, the difference that it makes two people, whatever the relative difference they want it to make,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
was still there. So yeah. was it after that was all focused on dentistry.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, and then roll forward a few years, you then went to King’s where you qualified as a dentist. What did what did your King’s experience teach you other than how to be a dentist?
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, I think King’s was fantastic. I was so upset on my graduation day and I’m sure maybe some of my peers in the year will remember if they ever listen to this just how emotional few of us were and I was one of them like I don’t want this to end, it’s
Andy & Chris:
the
Sam Jethwa:
been the best five years ever and it really had and if I think back to it I don’t remember the exams having as much free time as everybody else who’s doing different other courses.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
I don’t remember any of that. I just remember the really good times. I think your brain blocks those things
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Sam Jethwa:
out. And it was a fantastic experience because being a student in central London and being able to live there, which is, you know,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Sam Jethwa:
forward to live there, right? That’s just not a thing you can generally afford to do. And so as a young person. So I managed to live in, you know, just off Tower Bridge Road. really amazing location
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Sam Jethwa:
by the river, full five years and made incredible friends, incredible relationships, people I’m still friends with now who work now work in our clinics as well. We’ve got a few people from my own cohort, my own year, who we
Andy & Chris:
There
Sam Jethwa:
worked
Andy & Chris:
we
Sam Jethwa:
together.
Andy & Chris:
are.
Sam Jethwa:
So it was fantastic and one of the reasons I actually chose King’s was because my parents, I grew up in northwest London and I thought oh yeah first year I’ll go into halls and then the second, home. Obviously that didn’t happen. That was the last thing I wanted to do.
Andy & Chris:
Yay.
Sam Jethwa:
What I did manage to do was explore my own city so much better. So now I can, I live now in sort of quite close to central London and I don’t need my sat-nav. For me that’s a big thing, is I could just drive in and I know where I’m going
Andy & Chris:
You
Sam Jethwa:
and that’s
Andy & Chris:
know where you are,
Sam Jethwa:
because I spend five years in and around the city.
Andy & Chris:
yeah. So if the density goes wrong and you can’t do that anymore, you could do open-top bus tours, couldn’t you? You could be a tour guide of London. Or the Knowledge.
Sam Jethwa:
So it’s funny,
Andy & Chris:
If
Sam Jethwa:
but
Andy & Chris:
they
Sam Jethwa:
actually
Andy & Chris:
still do the Knowledge.
Sam Jethwa:
the King’s thing about being in London was amazing.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
I absolutely loved that because now I just know my own city really, really well.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm special
Sam Jethwa:
Aside from, of course, it being a brilliant place
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
to learn dentistry, that was fun for me.
Andy & Chris:
So you then have this metropolis of 12 million people living by Tower Bridge, going to King’s biggest, best city in the world. So you then decide to go and do your, what was VT then now your foundation year to rural Cornwall. So that must have been quite a stark contrast. Take us through the thought process on that one.
Sam Jethwa:
Well, you say decided, I didn’t decide it. It was
Andy & Chris:
Oh,
Sam Jethwa:
decided for me,
Andy & Chris:
so
Sam Jethwa:
which explains
Andy & Chris:
that’s where
Sam Jethwa:
why.
Andy & Chris:
you got placed. I’ll tell you. Excellent.
Sam Jethwa:
It was 2012 and that was the first year where there was a new system for VTs. So
Andy & Chris:
Vite.
Sam Jethwa:
the foundation training has, it was about, I think you could apply to where you wanted to go and then it was
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
that kind of system.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
But there was, there was apparently there was, there was favoritism and so and so’s uncles are dentists in those in Northwest London and they’re going to get that job. And it was all becoming a bit of a, a fast
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, political.
Sam Jethwa:
strategy. And so the people who didn’t, sadly, and a lot of people in dentistry, especially the London universities, they do have family, maybe parents, uncles, aunties that are, this is a demographic, isn’t it, that are in the professional ready. They were getting all the best training jobs and then other people left not having them. So they thought they’d fix this. And they changed it so that you had an interview. And I vaguely remember it, you had an interview you go in and it was kind of like a chat, but then there was also some other academic questions and things like that. And there was some kind of an exam and there was a few things to do. And they also ask you to rank all the foundation training regions. I think it was one to 75 or something really, really
Andy & Chris:
Oh
Sam Jethwa:
long.
Andy & Chris:
my goodness.
Sam Jethwa:
According to where you want to go. So I put one to 10, all the London boroughs, essentially. thinking, oh yeah, you know, obviously I’ll get London, of course. And then being so London centric my whole life, of course, anything outside the M25 is like, you know, anxiety inducing
Andy & Chris:
It’s a foreign
Sam Jethwa:
for
Andy & Chris:
country.
Sam Jethwa:
me.
Andy & Chris:
Get your passport out.
Sam Jethwa:
So then I thought, right, well, if I am ending up outside the M25, where, like, where would I want to go? Which I’m never going to, because obviously I’ll get one of the top 10.
Andy & Chris:
Of course.
Sam Jethwa:
So, so then, um, then I put Cornwall. because I thought, oh, that’s a nice place. It’s really nice. And then I put things like Birmingham and Midlands and Hull and all those places really low down because they used to at that time, you know, stress me out, I can’t be there. I’d rather be somewhere I’ve been on holiday before because that might be quite nice, but I’m never going to need it anyway.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
And then the rankings came out and I was ranked in the bit that was Truro and it said Truro and I just couldn’t believe it. It’s got to be some kind of.
Andy & Chris:
Probably the eight people that put Cornwall not bottom. Excuse me, sir, there’s been a mistake.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, I thought there’s got to be some kind of a mistake, you know.
Andy & Chris:
You can just imagine someone sitting there going, bloody hell, he’s put Cornwall 11th right.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
That’s a first choice as far as we’re concerned.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah. So that’s what happened. And then I called my mum and I said, what am I going to do? Uh, and
Andy & Chris:
Hehehehehehe
Sam Jethwa:
then she said, no, it’s fine. You know, we’ll go and be fine and we’ll help you settle down. And all this, but it’s so far away. And then I think what happened was the game changer really, because I ended up there and you had a meet and greet with your potential practice owner, the BT trainer, and my BT trainer wasn’t there. Well, the one I ended up with wasn’t there. So everybody else thought, oh, well, he’s not there. He must not be very good trainer because he’s not very interested in meeting us. So nobody put that practice down at all. And then of course, I didn’t really want to be there anyway. So I thought, I don’t really want to be with someone that’s too keen because I don’t really want to be there.
Andy & Chris:
The reverse psychology of it. Reverse psychology, that’s a bit like two dudes discussing with your wife, isn’t it, when they’re doing the double bluff and you’re thinking, well hang on, what should I answer this?
Sam Jethwa:
So that’s how it went down and I put that practice, my top practice, of course no one else did. And I was also basing it on location because it was in the centre of Truro and I know there’s a train station and that goes to London so I already had done that trip to get there. So I knew that location is quite good, he’s obviously not that overly keen, he’s not going to sit over my shoulder and kind of like walk and
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
stuff because I kind of just want to be here and get the year out of the way. out that a match made in heaven and Mark who was my VT trainer and I are still friends now and we’ll be going back
Andy & Chris:
Lovely.
Sam Jethwa:
11 years and he taught me so much in that one year and the first thing he said to me was in the first day because I didn’t make it to the thing I was away really sorry about that but nice to meet you and I understand that you don’t really want to be here.
Andy & Chris:
pleased to meet you
Sam Jethwa:
I said, yeah, I don’t. He goes, well, what can I do to make it better for you? which is really, really nice. And so I thought, oh, wow, okay, I didn’t expect that. So I said the one thing that I would appreciate is if I would manage to, on a Friday, finish early enough that I could actually head back into London if I needed to for the weekend. And he’s like, absolutely fine. If that’s what’s gonna make you happy, because I think he appreciated it. If he’s got a happy VT, it’s
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
gonna get, his patients are gonna be happier, it’s gonna have less hassle with me and whatnot.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm, what
Sam Jethwa:
And
Andy & Chris:
a great
Sam Jethwa:
you
Andy & Chris:
lesson
Sam Jethwa:
know.
Andy & Chris:
for you to learn early on.
Sam Jethwa:
So he said, that’s fine. Let’s close the practice at 2 p.m. on Friday. In fact, you know, not just your diary, let’s just close the whole practice at 2 p.m. on Friday. And so we did that. And I managed to get back all weekends except for eight, of which three of them people visited me. And so, sorry, all those, three of them were exams. I was a BT, JDF and all those things. And then the other ones were when people visited. So I used to go back and forth every weekend. And it was an amazing experience. The VT’s that I met were great. Another VT who didn’t want to be there either moved in with me and we had a flat share together. It was really
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Sam Jethwa:
great.
Andy & Chris:
How long was the
Sam Jethwa:
And
Andy & Chris:
train
Sam Jethwa:
it was the best
Andy & Chris:
journey?
Sam Jethwa:
year of my life. Sorry.
Andy & Chris:
How long’s the train journey?
Sam Jethwa:
Really long, too long. I used to fly actually. I used to block book my flights from Newquay. And I think I did train a couple of times. It’s about four to five hours.
Andy & Chris:
Oh
Sam Jethwa:
It’s been a real flow.
Andy & Chris:
yeah. Hmm. In retrospect, doing your training down in Cornwall, was it a slower pace? Did you have more time? Was there better capacity? London, we know London moved at 100 miles an hour. So as a newly qualified dentist, did it actually turn out to be a really good place to do your VT?
Sam Jethwa:
It was the best place that I, everything happens, doesn’t it? And for a reason,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
most of it, or you, or you don’t. And I decided to make the most of it. Once Mark and I realized that actually we have so much
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
in common in which it’s going to be a supportive trainer to me. And, uh, it was the best year ever. Clinically, I learned everything I needed to learn. I learned how to work with the nurses. The nurse, the nursing support had was amazing. They were so nice, so welcoming. Taught me lots of things like even something I remember now, just at the end of the day, say thank you. the nurse, not just okay bye see you tomorrow, say thanks for today etc. You know just small things that
Andy & Chris:
means a lot.
Sam Jethwa:
they taught me was really helpful and has stood me in good stead. I don’t now see it as a negative, I see it as one of the best things that ever happened
Andy & Chris:
Right,
Sam Jethwa:
being
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
said. So yes I totally agree and having spoken to people who went to the places I really wanted to go, they had a very different experience, I think it was a blessing.
Andy & Chris:
Brilliant, brilliant. Just before we get to your practice and your academy, you’re quite well known on social media, on Instagram, you post quite a lot, but for me, your page, you post in a very positive way, you know, the things you put up, it’s a very positive environment. Is there a strategy behind this? And has it been good for business? Because you were quite an early adopter of Instagram, weren’t you? You were kind of one of the leading
Sam Jethwa:
Yes, social media is a very interesting area, of course. I mean, we could be here for hours
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Sam Jethwa:
talking about all the nuances of social media and all this stuff, especially with indentistry. I was actually late to Instagram as a platform personally because I was I’m very kind of I like what I like and I don’t tend I really need a push to get onto new platforms like this. So, for example, when Facebook came out, I was like, no, resisting it. My space is what it’s all about.
Andy & Chris:
MySpace. Oh
Sam Jethwa:
Thank you.
Andy & Chris:
my word.
Sam Jethwa:
My space page was amazing. I had, because you could create whatever you wanted. It was such a creative thing. And that was always interesting to me is to be more creative. So you can have your own backgrounds, you can have the music and all this sort of stuff. And then Facebook was just blue and white and really kind of like CB. So I’m not interested in that at the time, of course, and then it’s changed. So I was late to that. Then it was Instagram and people said, oh, you’d love it, you’d love it, you’d love it. Because I used to enjoy my photography and all this sort of thing. It was all about photos and it was food and travel and that’s what it was at this time. to start. I just can’t bother with another app, you know, I just don’t want it. And then I did, I got it in the end. And then I don’t really know how, I can’t remember really how the dentistry aspect started on it. I think I just did one composite case of something that I thought was quite good. and I just put it there and then it was well received and I thought oh okay we’ll use this for dentistry. I think there was a few of us at the time. Simon, Simon and I were at university together, Simon Chard, the same year, we’ve known each other for a long time. He was starting to do lots of social media stuff at the time as well and so it was all kind of at the same time. So yes, I guess I was one of the
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
earliest ones in dentistry.
Andy & Chris:
Did you feel, speaking to lots of young dentists, there’s quite a lot of apprehension now among young dentists showing their work. You know, they feel some of the cases that are out there are incredible. So as a young dentist, I couldn’t possibly put my work up. Back in the day when you started, did you have that same apprehension of showing your work or was it a different time?
Sam Jethwa:
No, it was the same, but it was more on Facebook at the time. So it was really, I remember a good friend of mine, Richard Field, if you’ve
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
heard him, he’s a very good friend of mine, but at the time he was just a dentist that I knew, we weren’t really very close, but I remember his work was exemplary and like totally incredible to me,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
and it was all on Facebook. And… seeing that pushes the standards up doesn’t it because then I am not going to post something until I think it’s as good because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Sam Jethwa:
I’m going to feel like people are going to compare and so with Instagram it’s no different but I think that there wasn’t as much dentistry on there so there wasn’t as much comparison and Facebook was always a place where there was a bit of negativity and there was
Andy & Chris:
I
Sam Jethwa:
there
Andy & Chris:
think there
Sam Jethwa:
is
Andy & Chris:
still is as
Sam Jethwa:
still
Andy & Chris:
well.
Sam Jethwa:
is
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, I didn’t spend any time on it really. And that was a place I didn’t really want to go with it. So Instagram was a lot more positive and I think that was why I felt more comfortable doing so. But ultimately, and I still say this, we’ll talk about my academy in a moment, but some of my mentoring dentists who I one-to-one with for like six months of the year, often one of their challenges is how do I… start putting stuff on social media and building my profile, let’s say on Instagram, for example. And the answer is you just have to kind of close your eyes, put it out there. If you think it’s half decent, then most other people really think it’s half decent too. Most people think it’s better than you think it is because we’re always our worst enemy when it
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Sam Jethwa:
especially
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
cosmetic dentistry. So which is a good thing. It’s a good way to look at it because you’re always going to want
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
to improve. But that’s what and if I go back and scroll back, my work is I look at how was I posting that?
Andy & Chris:
Hehehehehehe
Sam Jethwa:
like it’s so fantastic. How did I ever build any kind of profile putting stuff out like that? But then times move on and your standards improve. And I think everybody
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
doing good quality workout now is pushing standards up even higher. which is a good thing, that no one should really feel, I don’t think defeated by that, or feel that people are being judged. I’ve always steered very clear from any groups, because there are groups out there on WhatsApp, on Facebook, there’s an opt-in list who will comment, even within their own private groups or whatnot, about other people’s work. And I’ve seen it over somebody’s shoulder at a BACD conference about my work. I’ve seen it firsthand, it’s people that I know. And that’s
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
really, really what’s bringing our profession down. working with each other to kind of improve how we communicate and how we talk about other dentists and unfortunately
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
that sort of thing is out there you just have to just do this and close your eyes and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah,
Sam Jethwa:
just
Andy & Chris:
no,
Sam Jethwa:
get
Andy & Chris:
I think that’s good advice. And I think particularly for younger dentists who are on that tipping point where they’re nervous about posting their work, hopefully they’ll take a lot
Sam Jethwa:
If
Andy & Chris:
from
Sam Jethwa:
you keep
Andy & Chris:
that.
Sam Jethwa:
thinking about what other people are going to think, then…
Andy & Chris:
You just don’t do anything, do you? I was going to say, I think you’ll paralyze yourself in life generally if you’re worried about the opinions of others too heavily.
Sam Jethwa:
As long as you know you’re doing the right thing and you’re proud of what you’re doing, you’re making a difference to patients lives and you’re doing it in a safe way, then that’s something to be applauded and then of course clinically we can all get better.
Andy & Chris:
Absolutely, absolutely. So jumping away from that, you then set up your Academy in 2018 and your practice in 2019.
Sam Jethwa:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
What was the journey from, you’re now back from Cornwall, you’re back in the safe confines of London. What was the process to get from there to setting up Academy? And I found it interesting that you set up your Academy before your practice as well. Yes, I was about to say the Academy first and then the practice. Quite often it’s the other way
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
around.
Sam Jethwa:
Well, what happened was I came back to London. I had a group of patients in Cornwall that were amazing and I really enjoyed it, but they asked me not a single question. I think I had one patient who wanted to know what material I was using for something.
Andy & Chris:
Right, yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
It was very much a, yeah, I need a filling. Okay, fine, I need a tooth out, okay. And I came to London, and I was firstly was trying to find a job in London. That was really tough. Through dropping my CVs, every single practice across Northwest London, I managed to find somebody who called me back and then there wasn’t a job available then there was and managed to get that and it was amazing. Northwest London, private and NHS mixed practice, majority NHS, and I had patients who were asking loads of questions. What material is it gonna be? Is it white? And then all the crown, why can’t I have the white crown? Or what kind of dentures? All these, I think I had to start explaining all these things. Oh, I’m gonna have to take the tooth out. I don’t wanna take the tooth out. What else can I have? It was totally different. to Cornwall.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Sam Jethwa:
So the first thing that I had to step up was my communication of how
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
to explain all these
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Sam Jethwa:
treatments and I had to get quicker because I still had a similar amount of time. I had a little, I did have longer than I had in Cornwall but only I’m talking about five minutes longer.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
Often these conversations would be 10 or 15 minutes on there on. own.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Sam Jethwa:
The first thing that I tried to work on was that communicating treatments but also communicating NHS versus private because that is such a difficult thing in
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
a mixed practice to get right and stick within the rules and make
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
sure you’re always doing the right thing because it’s very difficult for us to always know what is going to fit in with the rules and what isn’t, you know, so we don’t
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
always get it right. So that was what I worked on but while I was in Cornwall I I knew that what I wanted was cosmetic dentistry. And so I had already enrolled onto various one year restorative courses before my BT finished. I’d already done some stuff in London back and forth. And I had some shadowing with private dentists who were doing cosmetic work
Andy & Chris:
That’s pretty
Sam Jethwa:
down in Gotham.
Andy & Chris:
forward
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
thinking.
Sam Jethwa:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
That’s the 11 year
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
old Sam deciding that he wants to be a dentist. This is the Sam in his early 20s already mapping out your career path.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, I didn’t want to waste any time. And I also
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
wanted to learn, you know, how to do that stuff. I was seeing other people do and thought it was amazing. So I, BACD was really the start of all of that for me, because being around people who were already doing that were the people that I admired in the industry. It was sort of helping me to develop that pathway because often as young dentists, we just don’t know what to do next.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
We know where we want to be. And nowadays I have to say, everybody wants to be there overnight. and they forget
Andy & Chris:
Hehehe
Sam Jethwa:
that it’s taken people like me over 10 years, even though the grey hairs are coming in now, but people would still consider me to be on the younger side,
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Sam Jethwa:
which is fair enough. But I graduated at 23, I’m 34 now, and I haven’t wasted any time, so it’s
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Sam Jethwa:
been a constant sort of growth. So it doesn’t happen overnight. And I
Andy & Chris:
So true,
Sam Jethwa:
don’t
Andy & Chris:
isn’t it?
Sam Jethwa:
want to
Andy & Chris:
It’s
Sam Jethwa:
waste
Andy & Chris:
like
Sam Jethwa:
time.
Andy & Chris:
10,000 hours thing. Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, 10,000
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Sam Jethwa:
hours, yeah,
Andy & Chris:
it
Sam Jethwa:
exactly.
Andy & Chris:
takes time to mastery is not easy Yeah, but
Sam Jethwa:
So.
Andy & Chris:
it looks easy
Sam Jethwa:
Even then you’d still want to get better and better because things
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
change and your stats change. So that is where I ended up. And I just continued on the courses, you know, fill it, ticking the boxes, right? Photography, composites, a year long restorative, so a bit of everything, kind of weeding out the stuff I knew I didn’t like. So root canal treatments, extractions, you know, I was like, not going to go in and learn more about those because
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
I don’t really like it. But then I spent a lot of time thinking that I was going to become an implant. assist. and I spent tens of thousands of pounds on implant courses in the UK, abroad, for about three or four years, alongside lots of cosmetic stuff. So what I did is, and often when we’re doing our training days and we’re talking about the non-clinical, I always show this graph about the level of investment. So when we graduate as dentists, we actually earn pretty well, considering we’re 23 years old usually, if you haven’t taken a gap year or if you’re doing post-grad, but you’re quite young. earning around about 30 to 35k a year, something like that as a VT, which is pretty, it’s really good.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
And then you go into practice and that can double or triple really quickly. Even with mixed practice, some NHS, some private work, all NHS, you know, it’s a volume game. So you end up earning a lot more than your friends who are not dentists who you went to university with, who are doing things in the corporate world, whether it’s finance or lawyers and things, So I had a lot of surplus income per year, about 30 or 40k let’s say. So what am I going to do with that? So I, because when we go on a holiday we obviously have to match the budget, like a group of lads on a holiday we match
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
the budget of the person who can afford the lease. So
Andy & Chris:
So it’s true surplus, isn’t it? Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
yeah, so it’s not like… what am I going to do that? So I just thought, right, I have to just self invest. So I put that amount of money every year into different courses and training. And I would say I’d wasted a penny because even if I went on the course and thought it wasn’t, it didn’t give me exactly what I thought it would, it gave me something. Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, you learnt something, yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
And so I just invested a lot, a lot, and I added it up the other day because we had one of our days where it was a non-clinical day about this sort of thing. And it was eye watering. You know, I couldn’t believe it. You could buy, you could buy a couple of these deposit for, for a London flat. If
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
you, or more, you know, if you add it up, but it was all worth it. So I didn’t waste any time. And through the BACD, I was then offered a position. I wasn’t looking for one. in the private practice with Rahul Doshi who is ex-BACD president as well and he was really keen to get me in because he was inundated in their practice and they needed somebody to do more of the general work and that’s where I went after London and it took me about six months to make that move because I was so happy where I was in my mixed practice and I felt royalty.
Andy & Chris:
Right. Hmm. And also, was that Hartford? Yeah, or was
Sam Jethwa:
Alfred,
Andy & Chris:
that
Sam Jethwa:
yes.
Andy & Chris:
the… Yeah, so that’s kind of outside of M25. This is getting quite racy again, isn’t it? Hmm. There’s
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
fields.
Sam Jethwa:
And so I was commuting from Northwest London to, to Hertford
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
and started on a day a week doing general day, general stuff, the stuff that they’d refer me. Um, and then it became two days a week and three days a week, four days, it became five days a week. Um, and, uh, then the practice was going through a transition. So the principles were kind of, um, selling the practice on. And so I had to take up, you know, just because I was there then.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
majority of the time I had to take up a lot of the cosmetic work so I was just thrown in to this situation where I had to find a way of learning.
Andy & Chris:
What’s quite nice in this whole story is how strongly the BACD features. You said about, you know, you joined as a member and there was a big influence in terms of direction for learning and it was Rahul who then offered you a position and you know, you’re still heavily involved becoming president in a couple of years time. The amount of people that lean back on how important the BACD has been in helping them develop their careers, it’s a special organisation, isn’t it? And giving back as well, which is quite nice to see.
Sam Jethwa:
If you look at most of us who are doing this sort of work there and have found our way in this industry to the kind of level that we’re doing at, BACD will have some, or some kind
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
of academy, or some
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
kind of community, whether it’s BACD, whether it’s others, because others are now around.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
will have played a part because you can’t do this on your own. You have to find ways of seeing how others have done it and trying to
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
do the same. And
Andy & Chris:
And we’ll see.
Sam Jethwa:
it’s not lecturing in lectures. It’s like going out for dinner
Andy & Chris:
The community.
Sam Jethwa:
after
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
and then chatting to be like, oh, you’ve got practised that. How did you do that? You know, what kind of work? Oh, that’s amazing. And the things you pick up and non-educational environment being around people, that’s,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
can’t put a price on that. That’s amazing.
Andy & Chris:
And was that, was part of that the driver for you to set up your own academy? Seeing how powerful that was, was that something you thought, actually, I’ve got something else that I could provide now. You’ve got your full post-grad diploma in inclusion and portion in veneers. Was it looking at the BAC as an example and saying, there’s a place for me?
Sam Jethwa:
I think not really. I think BACD is BACD and it is so special that nothing can compare, you know, as far as I’m concerned. What it was problem solving for me really. It starts actually with social media as you could go back. When my profile became, reached a certain point, I was putting out mainly ceramic work because that’s what I ended up doing only majority of the time. And that wasn’t something that was promoted, in fact it was discouraged because of preparation and all that sort of thing on the teeth etc. And so I was kind of one of the few or the only one putting out ceramic work on social media at that time. and that was because the practice that I was in was geared towards that and then I had to learn the occlusion skills and material skills all that stuff along the way and so that’s what I was putting out there. So what would happen is people dentists who wanted to learn about that sort of thing would contact me and say Sam you’re doing a lot of this ceramic stuff I don’t know anything about that there’s nothing nowhere really I feel I can go and learn that can I come and spend a day with you and I was like yeah sure absolutely fine and this happened for a couple of years and have dentists It’ll be nice. There’s nothing formal, no structure,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
just
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
watch. At this point I had developed my own techniques of fixing the problems that I didn’t like within ceramic work. So heavy preparation, which was how it was done, false looking ceramic, poor material choice or colour and just didn’t
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
look the aesthetic that I wanted it
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
to look like. And longevity because being in a practice that you see the failures, it’s five years, six years, seven years,
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
eight years, ten years, even if they’re not my own cases, I can then this stuff doesn’t work.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
So there were issues within veneers that I felt needed to be rectified and so I worked with the labs and spent a day a week at the lab for example learning what happens there and fixing all these things and that’s where kind of the full handmade trial smile and the material thicknesses and we worked on the translucency and all these sorts of things started and then I would do that in practice while dentists were watching And then what would happen is, instead of all their questions becoming answered at the end of the day, they just had a much longer list of questions. Because you can watch someone do something, but
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
you have no idea. It’s like, well, you made that look easy. How?
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
And then this happened enough that I thought, God, actually I’m leaving these people more confused, uh, than when they came in, which is really the opposite of teaching.
Andy & Chris:
Yes, it’s not your ideal, is it?
Sam Jethwa:
So we had to put something more formal together. So I spent another two years then figuring out if I was going somewhere to learn what I know now, how would I structure it? Because I learned a lot as I went along.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
trial and error and practicing and working with the labs and working with the patients. So it wasn’t really very academic because I’m not very, it’s very more practical. So I put that together into a six day course and that was 2018 was yes, was when, when we, when I launched the first course, because I felt there was no other way of learning this stuff on one day or two days or shadowing it had to be a full six, actually was eight days at the time. on a course and then it’s developed from there. So we had about five people on that course and now we do two a year. We have 15 on each, so we have 30. Now that’s become because of the hours and the amount of effort they put in and we’re teaching people more rehabilitations, full mouth, all this sort of thing. It’s developed into postgraduate diploma and inclusion and course and visits, which is the only one in the world. You can’t get that qualification anywhere else, which is obviously something that we’re proud of.
Andy & Chris:
And you were saying that looking at lots of other people’s work and you now, you know, specialised in ultra thin veneers, what did you learn from looking at other people’s work in terms of their failures and the failures that you’ve had, that you’ve been able to build into this diploma so that people kind
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
of don’t make the mistakes that you’ve been through and you’ve seen?
Sam Jethwa:
And that’s exactly, you hit the nail on the head there. I’ve made those mistakes myself,
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Sam Jethwa:
learned the hard way. So when something fails, I’ve had to deal with that. So
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
because of that happening again and again and again and again,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
you tend to not make the same mistakes again. And then you develop, right, that mistake is a common mistake. Right, I’m gonna stop that from happening or that failure from happening clinically because we’re gonna do this instead. And then once you do that, and you can only do that that one treatment again and again and again and again. You’re working five days a week, seven to eight hours a day, only doing ceramic work and porcelain veneers. You’re going
Andy & Chris:
Hmm, you’ve learned, don’t you?
Sam Jethwa:
to develop techniques a million times quicker than somebody who is going to be doing one porcelain case every month even, which is still quite a lot.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
So that has fast tracked me in a way, because I’ve managed to condense probably about 15 years worth of failure into like an eight year period.
Andy & Chris:
Right, yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
And so that’s where I have figured out, but also seeing cases that in terms of dentistry, we’re always focused on the clinical, what works, how do I prep that tooth? What material do I use? How do I bond that on? All those things is what we as young dentists, when we’re sort of in our mid-20s learning these cosmetic things, we’re really focused on that clinical aspect. And so that’s, you know, now we’ve got that nailed, we’ve got our whole workflow and protocol we
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
can teach that. But that once we’ve got people to know that side of things, then it’s a case of taking it a step further and saying, how are you managing the expectations
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
of people who are coming in to actually ask you for that kind of work?
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Sam Jethwa:
going to last, how are you going to avoid the long-term failures,
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
and how are you going to manage that patient’s emotions and
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
psychology from the beginning to the end. Often, cosmetodentistry, that is the hardest bit. The clinical stuff, we can teach you because we’ve been there and done it, but this bit is now the next step.
Andy & Chris:
How many days do you work a week?
Sam Jethwa:
I was five days and then that went down to four days and then now that’s gone back up to five days as we’ve opened our Wimpole Street Clinic. So bespoke’s in Marlowe but also in London. So I’m kind of spreading myself over everywhere. So yeah. There’s not a lot
Andy & Chris:
So
Sam Jethwa:
of time.
Andy & Chris:
you’ve got two practices, a training academy, a sausage dog, a wife who’s a TV doctor and GP, so she’s obviously got a busy life in her own world, and you’ve just become a new father. So
Sam Jethwa:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
where does downtime fit in?
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, it doesn’t.
Andy & Chris:
Now. Ha
Sam Jethwa:
Talking
Andy & Chris:
ha
Sam Jethwa:
to
Andy & Chris:
ha.
Sam Jethwa:
you
Andy & Chris:
This podcast’s
Sam Jethwa:
guys.
Andy & Chris:
so relaxing, yeah. Oh.
Sam Jethwa:
Um. So, so yeah, and of course, BACD on top of that, right, because
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Sam Jethwa:
that’s what people
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
don’t always know. And it’s not something we publicize at all, because we don’t have to be doing a lot of choice. But being a board member on the BACD and having been one for a number of years now, it is a job in itself a separate
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
job. We are communicating on the board as a board every single day, on the decisions about, let’s say, our conference or the education or the marketing. And I’ve been comms director for a few years before I passed that on That’s a full-time role in between the clinical work, in between the academy,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
in between getting back to my one-to-one dentist that can contact me any time, plus the business side of the practice. It’s a lot. But I think that I’m not getting it right. I wouldn’t say I’m getting the work-life balance right. I think that I have a very adaptable… relationships and my wife is very understanding, knows what I want to do and what I want to achieve and she never sort of stops me from doing that. Maybe different now that we have a
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
baby. So things might change but the idea is that… you know, I do need to keep myself clinical because that’s how I can deliver the best education.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
If I stop and then I start teaching fully, let’s say, then I will, I’ll only be able to teach what I know up to today.
Andy & Chris:
So you’ve become out of date. It’s a guy that used to do it, as opposed to
Sam Jethwa:
Exactly.
Andy & Chris:
a guy who’s doing it.
Sam Jethwa:
And they’ll only get me up to today, what I know.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
Whereas every day I’m in and every day there’s something new, I can bring that back. So there will still need to be a clinical element. It probably won’t be five days a week once things are settled in
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Sam Jethwa:
London, Marlowe and things like that. So that
Andy & Chris:
But
Sam Jethwa:
won’t
Andy & Chris:
also
Sam Jethwa:
be the case.
Andy & Chris:
I sense your energy and passion for clinical dentistry as well. You don’t strike me as somebody that whilst you enjoy the business side, I think you still have a real passion for dentistry too.
Sam Jethwa:
I do, and I think part of it is because I’ve created my own dream week in
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
a
Andy & Chris:
Hmph.
Sam Jethwa:
sense, because I… We have a really good team. So I’m very fortunate to have people that have been through our academy. So my associates have been through that, but also know from BACD. So there’s relationships there with our associates who I pick based upon what kind of work they wanna do, where they want their careers to go. And then we always, we know what everybody wants to do. And we try not to have everybody wanting to do the same thing within the practices.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
So everyone does what they want to do. what they’re doing, but actually from the patient point of view, you’re covering all bases. But as a dentist, you’re not being forced to do something you don’t want to do.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
And that’s how I can focus purely on the veneer side of things. And I don’t do anything else. So that means that I can see a certain number of people in the day. So I’m not in five days a week seeing 30 people.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Sam Jethwa:
I
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
might see two or three
Andy & Chris:
But that’s a
Sam Jethwa:
or
Andy & Chris:
smart
Sam Jethwa:
four.
Andy & Chris:
way to structure your business as well. Because, you know, say you loathe root canals or extractions or whatever it is, there might be somebody else that loves it. So getting people to do the bit they enjoy, it doesn’t mean because you don’t enjoy it, somebody else will take on a job they don’t enjoy. They love doing that, but it’s just not for you. So balancing out what people are doing is a smart way to configure it.
Sam Jethwa:
And as a patient, do you want to see a jack of all trades?
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, that’s right.
Sam Jethwa:
You know?
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. Well, it’s interesting, we were talking about that. Yeah, are we moving into a climate where we all end up with people who specialise? You know, you’re still always going to be qualified as a general dentist, but you will start to see specialists within a practice environment for different treatments.
Sam Jethwa:
I think that’s the way that it should go because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
that is how the patient is going to get the best possible care.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
Everyone who, I mean, I can’t, I’m not a specialist, right, on paper because that I’m a restorative general dentist, but I have a special interest in certain treatment, which means I’m better at delivering that treatment with fewer complications
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
and longer predictability for the patient. So that’s good for them. Whereas if I was doing a few extractions after now, I’d probably leave some roots in, break their tuberosity. I’ve
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Sam Jethwa:
got
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
my job, right, because I’m just not good at it. So why would they wanna see me for that? And my patients know that, they understand that, they kind of seek me out for that. And I think that’s really, really good for dentistry going forward. If people do things they wanna do, not only does that mean you’ll be a happier dentist and we’ll have fewer kind of negativity and issues in terms of I hate my job and all this sort of stuff that we see, which is really, really sad within dentistry.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Sam Jethwa:
We have so much potential in industry and in the profession that actually it’s a shame that people are there and not enjoying it because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Sam Jethwa:
if we there are things I’m sure that they do enjoy about it but if you could do more of that they’d
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Sam Jethwa:
feel better. And so that’s one thing in terms of mental health, we can choose what we want to do. That will be huge for the profession. But then the patient will get the best care too. So that will be good. It’s just only really possible in a private environment. So that’s a big thing. Whereas with the
Andy & Chris:
Yes,
Sam Jethwa:
private care,
Andy & Chris:
yeah. And
Sam Jethwa:
it’s
Andy & Chris:
also with good patient communication. So it’s explained to the patient why this is good for them, whilst you will see a number of clinicians. You are going to get a better long term outcome as opposed to being
Sam Jethwa:
It’s
Andy & Chris:
one person.
Sam Jethwa:
changing the way the dent the patients think as well, because often they think, oh, no, but I love I really like you. I want you to do everything. And that’s just how it’s always been as a general dentist, GDP in a mixed practice, let’s say, or an
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
NHS practice. But actually that if we can, if we can move more into this specialty or special interest model, then everyone’s going to benefit, I think,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Sam Jethwa:
is the patient.
Andy & Chris:
absolutely. Sam, it’s been a wonderful conversation. Yeah, I think it’s great. I think the way that it’s weaved together and who’d have thought how instrumental going to Cornwall would have been for you?
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
The start of a journey.
Sam Jethwa:
All
Andy & Chris:
We
Sam Jethwa:
right.
Andy & Chris:
always finish up with our guests in the same way. So we have two questions for you. And the first question is, if you could be the fly on a wall in a situation, when would that be? Where would you be and who would be there?
Sam Jethwa:
isn’t it?
Andy & Chris:
Doesn’t have to be deep.
Sam Jethwa:
No, you know what, I’ve always been fascinated by, you know, I like my marketing, I like my videography, I like all that stuff. As a kid, I would watch adverts, and some adverts are really weird, aren’t they? Just really out there. And think about the Jaffa Cakes advert, you know, full moon, half moon, right?
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
I’ve always wanted to be in the room when an idea like that is pitched.
Andy & Chris:
Okay.
Sam Jethwa:
just to see how where did that come from you know it’s crazy
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, that
Sam Jethwa:
um
Andy & Chris:
would be quite
Sam Jethwa:
well like
Andy & Chris:
interesting.
Sam Jethwa:
the go compare guy who’s like you know the Pavarotti guy is like that
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
idea is so stupid that if you’re sitting in a meeting and you’re explaining that to say this is what we want to do
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Sam Jethwa:
i’d really love to know how these people get those ideas through and actually they can be really successful
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
always wondered that it’s not a very deep one it’s not like
Andy & Chris:
No, no. So it’s good to compare the makeup. Because you’re right. It’s that thing of do people immediately go, great idea,
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
or is it you’re nuts and then you have to work on them and work them around to
Sam Jethwa:
So
Andy & Chris:
the
Sam Jethwa:
I
Andy & Chris:
idea
Sam Jethwa:
just
Andy & Chris:
and
Sam Jethwa:
wonder
Andy & Chris:
suddenly. Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
where the persuasion comes in or like, what’s their pitch like? You can see how my brain works.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
So I’m just really interested in that. That is where I’d really love to be a fly on the wall. Not
Andy & Chris:
I like that.
Sam Jethwa:
moving,
Andy & Chris:
Interesting.
Sam Jethwa:
or like when
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, no.
Sam Jethwa:
Einstein discovered this or that.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, that’s it. Yeah, you’ve been using on the Go Compare guy on the Earth, Jaffa Cakes.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
And then our follow-up to that is if you could meet somebody, you could sit down and have a coffee or go for a stroll with somebody, who would you like to meet given the opportunity?
Sam Jethwa:
Well, I’m going to stay consistent because Payman asked me this on his podcast, and I can’t really change my mind because that’s the answer to the question. Um, and again, it’s not deep and I’m actually not really that into it, but I do think what’s been created is amazing, um, in terms of a brand and it would actually be Chris Jenner.
Andy & Chris:
Oh.
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah, unexpected. Because
Andy & Chris:
It was.
Sam Jethwa:
I just want to know how on earth did they create such a brand that is… Whether you like it or you don’t like it, it’s successful.
Andy & Chris:
It’s phenomenal. It’s successful. And she manages the whole family. She manages the whole family. She’s a proper matriarch of that. And imagine, I mean, perhaps in the early days, not so much, but now, trying to coordinate those egos. Whew! I bet that’s a job.
Sam Jethwa:
I think just as a business situation that there’s been branding, business situation, whatever all the opportunities. I just think it’s, I would love to know the truth behind how it all happened.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, how they got there.
Sam Jethwa:
Not the, obviously what we get fed, which
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, no, no
Sam Jethwa:
is again filtered. Which I’m sure she’s
Andy & Chris:
It’s
Sam Jethwa:
in control.
Andy & Chris:
almost a bit of another one. How did they pitch that? Yeah. That’s of a TV show. Yeah. They were
Sam Jethwa:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
kind of pioneers,
Sam Jethwa:
exactly.
Andy & Chris:
weren’t they, at the time for that? Yeah.
Sam Jethwa:
It’s yeah so that’s the one I want to ask a few questions to.
Andy & Chris:
Sam thank you for your time. Clearly from talking to you today you’re not short of things to do so to make your time available to us is very generous. Thank you so much. Congratulations on the new baby as well. Truly truly
Sam Jethwa:
Thank
Andy & Chris:
wonderful
Sam Jethwa:
you for having
Andy & Chris:
news.
Sam Jethwa:
me, it’s really pleasure to be invited.
Andy & Chris:
No not at all. No it’s been really wonderful and yeah hope to catch up with you soon. Cheers Sam. Thanks
Sam Jethwa:
Bye.
Andy & Chris:
man. Cheers.
